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Who else could care less about video poker?

RecVPPlayer
RecVPPlayer
May 21, 2013
2:43am
Block User
Let me try to put this in another way.

At least most people I know would rather play for a longer amount of time than a shorter amount of time. Well the better pay schedules in combination with smart play (and you can get even more help if the Slot Club return in cashback and/or comps is better) will enable players to play longer (even if they don't care whether they win or lose).

But also, another factor in the longevity of being able to play is the game's "Variance" (which is basically its Volatility rate). The higher that amount is, the more likely that the player will go through losing periods before they hit some stuff.

So 9/6 Jacks Or Better has a Variance of 19.5 while 10/7/5 Double Bonus Poker has a Variance of about 28 and Double Double Bonus Poker has a Variance of about 42 (which makes it a lot more streaky in the bad way).

RecVPPlayer
Dan Svatass
Dan Svatass
May 21, 2013
4:29am
Block User
One quibble:
Quote
Originally posted by: going4broke2005
First, in terms of odds, there is no difference between a full pay machine and a short pay machine. I have the same odds of hitting a royal on a full pay machine as I have on a short pay machine.
That's only true if you apply the same strategy to both machines, which wouldn't be the correct choice. The strategy should differ. And on the short pay machine, one is likely to make moves that increases the probability of hitting a royal, since that payout's for that hand will be the same on both machines, while the lesser hands will be shorted.

Because I'll be less interested in drawing to flushes and full houses, on average it will take me fewer hands to hit a royal on an 8/5 JoB machine than it will on a 9/6 JoB machine.
going4broke2005
going4broke2005
May 21, 2013
5:01am
Block User
Quote
Originally posted by: Chilcoot
One quibble:
Quote
Originally posted by: going4broke2005
First, in terms of odds, there is no difference between a full pay machine and a short pay machine. I have the same odds of hitting a royal on a full pay machine as I have on a short pay machine.
That's only true if you apply the same strategy to both machines, which wouldn't be the correct choice. The strategy should differ. And on the short pay machine, one is likely to make moves that increases the probability of hitting a royal, since that payout's for that hand will be the same on both machines, while the lesser hands will be shorted.

Because I'll be less interested in drawing to flushes and full houses, on average it will take me fewer hands to hit a royal on an 8/5 JoB machine than it will on a 9/6 JoB machine.


You are absolutely correct in terms of strategy. My point was in terms of the machine, there is no difference in odds. In terms of changing strategy for full pay versus short pay, yes there is a change in odds but I didn't want to go into that detail.
RecVPPlayer
RecVPPlayer
May 21, 2013
12:47pm
Block User
I think that I should also add in that playing strategy can change depending on the pay schedule of the game. For example, with 10/7/5 Double Bonus Poker versus 9/6 Jacks Or Better Video Poker, strategy changes are needed (and will help you get to the over 100% return of that game). Because especially Flushes and Straights are paying more (7 and 5 respectfully) with 10/7/5 Double Bonus Poker versus Flushes and Straights paying 6 and 4 respectfully in 9/6 Jacks Or Better, then several more partial Straights and partial Flushes would need to be held to get the most pay out of the game.

For example, with 10/7/5 Double Bonus, a 3-Card Flush (with or without any High Card[s]) ranks on the strategy chart as well as a 4-Card Inside Straight with 0, 1 or 2 High Cards whereas with 9/6 Jacks Or Better, these type of hands do not rank at all on the playing strategy chart.

And so substandard play will definitely affect the player's return.

RecVPPlayer

RecVPPlayer
RecVPPlayer
May 22, 2013
1:16am
Block User
I also should add in that going back to the 10/7/5 Double Bonus Poker versus 9/6 Jacks Or Better example, that also the increased pay for the Full House additionally helps the game's return but there's also a playing strategy change there that needs to be made which has to do with a Full House containing 3 Aces.

When people do not make the necessary playing strategy adjustments, errors in playing strategy can cost players an additional 2% To 6% in the lowering in the game's return rate, making even a good game go bad.

RecVPPlayer
RecVPPlayer
RecVPPlayer
May 22, 2013
5:19pm
Block User
Hey Group,

Although I don't have a Video Poker Frequency Analyzer handy right now, I just ran across something that shows a lower frequency of ending up with a Royal Flush on an 8/5 Jacks Or Better machine (except with the example that I was previously able to print out and get calculated by the www.videopokergenius.com website [which now won't do it because of some error]).

I previously had checked and printed out the paytable analysis of 8/5 Jacks when the Straight Flush paid twice as much (500 coins vs. 250 coins) and it says the Frequency for the Royal Flush is 1 in 39,804.5614 as opposed to the 1 in 40,390 for 9/6 Jacks Or Better.

And so the frequency of hitting things (on average) can vary based on the game's pay schedule.

So here, the player will on average hit the Royal Flush in less hands than with the higher paying game. But that doesn't make playing a lower returning (paying) game better because less pay can increase the likelihood of making a player's money run out faster than it would when getting higher pay (especially if the players actually have a choice in this).

RecVPPlayer
going4broke2005
going4broke2005
May 23, 2013
1:58am
Block User
Quote
Originally posted by: RecVPPlayer
Hey Group,

Although I don't have a Video Poker Frequency Analyzer handy right now, I just ran across something that shows a lower frequency of ending up with a Royal Flush on an 8/5 Jacks Or Better machine (except with the example that I was previously able to print out and get calculated by the www.videopokergenius.com website [which now won't do it because of some error]).

I previously had checked and printed out the paytable analysis of 8/5 Jacks when the Straight Flush paid twice as much (500 coins vs. 250 coins) and it says the Frequency for the Royal Flush is 1 in 39,804.5614 as opposed to the 1 in 40,390 for 9/6 Jacks Or Better.

And so the frequency of hitting things (on average) can vary based on the game's pay schedule.

So here, the player will on average hit the Royal Flush in less hands than with the higher paying game. But that doesn't make playing a lower returning (paying) game better because less pay can increase the likelihood of making a player's money run out faster than it would when getting higher pay (especially if the players actually have a choice in this).

RecVPPlayer


I am not disagreeing, but curious in knowing if the difference is the difference in strategy used on 8/5 versus 9/6. Assuming the same strategy is used on both (which I know isn't correct), the frequency shouldn't change on average. If the pay schedule somehow effects the frequency of the royal or any large hit, then the game wouldn't be random. As far as I am aware, the integrity of the game is based on a 100% random draw of a 52 card deck and there are no other variables or factors that can affect the draw. If the pay schedule even remotely affects the outcome, as well as any other factors like inserting a players card, etc., then the integrity of the game would suffer as the game wouldn't be based solely on a random draw. Am I missing something?

As for changing strategy, I can understand how the frequency will change on average. I am only talking in terms of using the same strategy on both an 8/5 or 9/6 (again admitting that isn't the correct play).

Edited to state again that I am not disagreeing, just curious as to the logic of the change.
RecVPPlayer
RecVPPlayer
May 23, 2013
3:05am
Block User
Yes, at least as far as I know, proper mathematically based playing strategy differs between the two games and I think more especially because of the Flush paying less (5 in 8/5 Jacks versus 6 in 9/6 Jacks) in 8/5 Jacks, there would be less Flush holds involved to help to get the maximum return possible.

I think that this is the same concept just as there is in 10/7/5 Double Bonus Poker more partial Straights, Flushes and (technically as well) Straight Flush holds necessary in playing strategy due to the increased worth (amount) of the pay if (when) you end up with a Straight, Flush or Straight Flush.

And so using incorrect playing strategy based on the pay schedule can cost people more money than necessary. I'm sure that this is a reason why the American Casino Guide book has playing strategy charts for both 9/6 Jacks as well as 8/5 Jacks (because some of the holds are different in each game to increase the chance of a player to get paid something) instead of just for one of the games.

RecVPPlayer
going4broke2005
going4broke2005
May 23, 2013
4:25am
Block User
Quote
Originally posted by: RecVPPlayer
Yes, at least as far as I know, proper mathematically based playing strategy differs between the two games and I think more especially because of the Flush paying less (5 in 8/5 Jacks versus 6 in 9/6 Jacks) in 8/5 Jacks, there would be less Flush holds involved to help to get the maximum return possible.

I think that this is the same concept just as there is in 10/7/5 Double Bonus Poker more partial Straights, Flushes and (technically as well) Straight Flush holds necessary in playing strategy due to the increased worth (amount) of the pay if (when) you end up with a Straight, Flush or Straight Flush.

And so using incorrect playing strategy based on the pay schedule can cost people more money than necessary. I'm sure that this is a reason why the American Casino Guide book has playing strategy charts for both 9/6 Jacks as well as 8/5 Jacks (because some of the holds are different in each game to increase the chance of a player to get paid something) instead of just for one of the games.

RecVPPlayer


Okay, that makes sense to me when you change the strategy of the game based upon the pay schedule.
koltunowicz
koltunowicz
May 25, 2013
12:46am
Block User
I've always enjoyed playing blackjack and recently craps but my wife is still intimidated to play any table games. She will still play a fair share of slots as I will blackjack, but video poker is something we both enjoy and can play together. I will take all accounts into where we stay and play, always keeping it fresh by trying a new place each trip for a night or two. But having said that I will always use the latest copy of blackjack news and vpfree2 to lead me to my final decision. MGM properties have been getting my attention lately with myvegas and they have a good mix of both good bj rules and some decent vp across most of their casinos. But I still like a couple days off strip or downtown as well where I can rack up some big point multipliers at Boyd properties on good vp.
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