Venetian/Palazzo, Offers, online or snail mail? UPDATES, if you have any New Info? Thx.

First I wouldnt put it past them to be pumping up figures but have no data on that.

And no, not exactly the same customer. The Sands Corporation offers the complete package. They contract with an organization to provide the convention space, offer up a "special" room rates for attendees and most importantly usually also try to have at least one catered function such as a meet and greet or formal dinner. If nothing else they will contract to provide coffee and the like for breaks. The contract may even call for a minimum number of room nights the organization must meet to use the facilities.

Now the Hilton will offer up special room packages to coincide with a convention but even though convienent to the venue they still compete with other properties for lodging, especially with the rail having a stop there. They may also compete for a social function. But what they can not do is offer the same type of one stop shopping. They also miss out on catering things like coffee and snacks for breaks this being done by the LCC. And in fact they are in competition with that facility for any social events.

The Hilton remains much more dependent on the gambler then the Sands model. Hilton is close but not the same.

And as to gamblers would say the Sands is THRILLED to have the convention crowd and not folks like CLV. These folks dont know a good deal, are in town for a convention for a few days, would tend to gamble at the place they are staying and wouldnt know a comp if it bit them in the rear. CLV knows the games and strategy, knows what her play is worth to the casino and knows there is competition for her dollar.

marcr,

Wasn't the initial success of the LVH because of their proximity to the Las Vegas Convention Center and the crowd they brought in? Of course Sands makes more money off of the convention crowd, but are there really enough conventions taking place each year held in Las Vegas at the V/P that would fill up 7000+ rooms for 90+% of the year? The point is, while all of these properties cater to conventioneers you have to think that in order to have the most success, a balance must be found between them and gamblers.

Of course all casinos would rather have "uneducated" gamblers than "educated" ones, but they can only be profitable if there is sufficient volume. I'm sure the casino would love to have experts playing their 99% payback video poker machines 24/7 rather than have them sit empty. Take a look at Bob Dancer's VP column from last week. There probably isn't a better VP player alive, yet he still dropped $80,000+ playing a promotion to win a car. Even the best players can lose. That's the whole point. As players, we were only offered comps / rooms based on PLAY THAT THE CASINO DEEMED WORTHY. If mistakes were made and players were given more than they were entitled to, look into your casino tracking software or marketing department, don't just pull the plug on everyone.

I have been playing and staying at the Venetian since it opened, but seeing as I won't be getting any more comped room offers, I can definitely say that I won't play there any longer. I've eaten in the restaurants there, seen the shows there and rode the gondolas. There is no reason to go back. Why would anybody want to gamble there if there's no way you can get a comped meal or room?

http://www.lvrj.com/business/las-vegas-sands-cuts-comps-for-average-gambler-115356324.html

Thanks Sue. The story is OUT there now.

They talk about the Last quarter. Excuse me Shel..........but many of us were still doing tourneys
in Dec. Because we booked them in Sept. You hadn't axed EVERYTHING just yet.
So you can't go by the end of Dec. THIS Spring Quarter will be more Accurate!

Thanks again for the great dialogue in this thread.

I plan to visit V/P on Wed. Will be curious how busy the casino is?
As I said to the Player Dev. host who contacted me..........
Good luck with the penny & nickle conventioneers you'll be getting. lol
One guy pulling the handle while 4 others watch. Oh yeah. Great plan.

Hopefully, echoing CLV's comments, folks take this as a spirited and FRIENDLY discussion. With the lose of civility on these boards, especially in the sink, I hope no one, especially a2a3dseddie takes this as other then a friendly chat!

The key difference was in the over all business model. Yes LVH profited from the proximity and it was part of the planning going into the property however it was not "joined at the hip" like with the Sands Corporation. Remember the first move was to secure the Sands Convention center, without that no development. THEN and only then was Venetian planned. It was and is like no other property on the Strip as it was planned from the outset to primarily cater to the convention crowd.

Are there that many conventions in Las Vegas? Short answer is yes. Many dont get the glitz or notoriety of the "big name" conventions but still fill the place up. For example, during one stay at V, the convention using the bulk of their facilities was a trade group made up of folks who, as explained to me, were basically the folks who operate all those Army-Navy type stores, who knew they had a national organization? Further there can be a number of smaller groups, since most of the space in the facility is modular to a degree, so that instead of just a single conventions you may have 3 or 4 at the same time. Las Vegas is still, I believe, the number one city in the US in number of convention attendees hosted annually.

The original model had the facility open to the public as it were to fill in those gaps when the hotel wasnt hosting a major convention. The addition of Palazzo may have been an over reach and definetly part ego driven as much by the Wynn opening across the street as anything else.

The V was very profitable in its original incarnation. Now many things have changed, including the economy, but profit margins are down considerably.

One last key to remember is long ago properties mandated all aspects of the operation must show a profit. The hotel side is now a separate operation. Unlike the old days when the hotel side was strictly to lure in gamblers and usually operated at a lose properties now expect a decent return on all operations to include the hotel side.

Is this move by V/P smart? Time will tell. But one key is this model will not work with other properties on the Strip since they do not have the same dependence on convention centers. It should be noted that Mandalay Bay does have a large conference center however it is also part of a group so doubtful it would adopt the V/P model.

Here is the way I look at it;the more conventions booked at V/P, the less going to Ceasars,Inc,which stregthens my postion with them. I used to split my trips between the two,now i can use my four comp days at Ceasars and the other three at M,Southpoint,or Orleans. I won't miss V/P for a second.
I wonder what V/P will do to fill the rooms when they lose a large customer to a competitor?What about trying to fill those empty rooms during those slow days or weeks? Time WILL tell... Bob

"Hopefully, echoing CLV's comments, folks take this as a spirited and FRIENDLY discussion. With the lose of civility on these boards, especially in the sink, I hope no one, especially a2a3dseddie takes this as other then a friendly chat!"

From your posts, your point seems to be that the V/P is unique with its convention business and that no other property in Las Vegas can compete with them in that regard. I don't necessarily disagree with you, I just think that other properties can and do compete for those same customers.

I am not a LVS stock holder nor am I a casino financial expert. I have no idea what the V/P booking schedule for conventions is nor how much money they make on them. I do know that their casino just became a whole lot less competitive than every other casino in Las Vegas.

I read the article that Sue Casey posted yesterday from the Las Vegas Sun where Adelson himself said that there would be no more comps except for the highest of players. That's not exactly a good way to advertise your business.

"Hold your conventions here! Spend and lose all your money here! Don't expect anything in return!"

Once again, this does not look like a viable long term strategy. It looks like someone is trying to artificially and temporarily inflate numbers to appear more profitable than they really are to boost stock prices. Maybe Adelson is trying to re-coup that cool billion he pumped into the company last year.

Well two points really.

Those attending conventions and gambling at a location usually arent "advantage gamblers" and have no idea what their gambling may be worth. They are there for business and a good time and throwing a few bucks in the slots, VP or playing some BJis just fun way to spend time. They rarely belong or are even aware of such things as slot clubs. For them it is a once a year event at best.

And second dont know if you were aware but several years ago now what were the peripherals (rooms, shows, spa) now exceed the returns from the casino as a percentage of profit for nearly all Las Vegas properties on the Strip.

As I said, lets see how the bottom line shakes out. If they return to profitablity it is hard to claim the approach didnt work in their particular situation.

I just got back from Vegas and went over to V/P to use the Gold lounge as I still am Gold. The place was dead. A good part of the casino is poker tables. Saw no one playing VP and No one in the Gold lounge except me on my 4 visits there. I confess I did play a hundred though a 7/5 dollar machine as I have hit more royals there than anywhere else so until the last year V/P was my lucky casino. I got nothing. I did use their shuttle from the airport and stayed at TI. The shuttle service took down my Gold card number so don't know if they match users with being a guest. I will miss staying in their cool rooms but like Motownbob as long as I can get Augustus rooms at Caesars and rooms at The M I am fine with that.

"And second dont know if you were aware but several years ago now what were the peripherals (rooms, shows, spa) now exceed the returns from the casino as a percentage of profit for nearly all Las Vegas properties on the Strip."

As your tone is starting to become condescending this will be my last comment on this particular thread.

When the casino industry claims "peripherals" now generate more profit than their casinos, it has to be taken with a grain of salt. The accounting department can spin numbers to make any department look favorable if they want to. I've always thought that claim was just a smoke screen to get non-gamblers and families who would never consider going to Las Vegas to finally go.

"Las Vegas is more than just gambling! Gambling is just a small part of Las Vegas now! Bring your family and friends!"

Make no mistake, the shows, shops, restaurants and conventions exist to get people into the casinos to gamble. When the first mega resort removes their casino to put in more showrooms, restaurants and shops I'll believe that "peripheral $" > gambling $.