76ers NO Respect!

76ers NO Respect! No play for me because I'm on an island I guess so just looking at a discussion of why the 76ers are only 2.5 pt favourites for tomorrow's game? Is it because Noah may go. I've read he is doubtful. He was on crutches I read today. Let's not forget the line was basically -2 on the 76ers before the move the other night and the original move was on the 76ers lightly until bigger bettors plunged head first into the Bulls. Let's not forget the ziz zag theory so there is a point in that I guess. Assuming Chicago -1 was the correct line we would be at Chicago -2 but we have +2.5 so under that theory there is a pretty big adjustment for Noah but I can't help but think the original line of Philadelphia -1.5 wasn't half bad. I just think the Bulls with Boozer, Watson, Deng Asik and Hamilton their team well just aren't as good as the 76ers----on their own home court never mind in Philly. The 76ers were just horrible in that game Friday. I can't believe the Bulls lost that lead as poorly as Philadelphia really played. Brand didn't even make a bucket did he? Maybe he got one. And Boozer Hamilton, etc. could have easily saved that game the other night even without Noah but they were so inferior that they blew the lead. This was supposed to be a strength of the team are these role players and bench players but I'm starting to think the whole team is just Rose and Noah. When Boozer is your best player I'm just not sure how good a team you really have. I'm thinking not a playoff team. Maybe Deng is the best player. They can't be as deep as Philly now and I don't even think their best 5 are as good as Philly's best 5. They were handed Game 3 totally blew it and now are they going to get beaten worse? If you got any, someone out there tell my why the Bulls are winning Game 4?

Looking forward to your thoughts on Dr bobs value of Noah.

Nice call Skeeter! I'm sure a lot of us on here wish we would have listened harder.

Surprised to say the least! But maybe I shouldn't be that surprised. I'll say that maybe the Bulls without Noah are better relatively than the Knicks are without Amare. I was surprised by how good the stats are of Taj Gibson. The Bulls had a rotation that was their 5th most frequent that doesn't include Noah and Rose. (Gibson Korver Lucas Asik and Deng) It is a heckuva rotation with a rating of +34. It is only 148 minutes but the Bulls have no rotations due to the injuries of more than 300 minutes during the season. Noah is in the most frequent 4 and the main one which doesn't include Rose because of his injuries are pretty good. Noah's +/- is -5 that I see during the season. Deng is Even. Rose is +2. The best Bulls guys are Gibson +11. Lucas is +11. Watson is -13 and Boozer is -9. It is too bad they couldn't have been hurt too so they could play Gibson Lucas and Korver all game. Of course the minutes are mostly garbage time for these guys but I'm sure Gibson is a helluva sub. That I do believe. He probably should be a starter somewhere-- maybe on the Bulls. No, I don't think Lucas is a better point guard than Rose anymore than the Bulls thought Mike James should stay on their roster since they cut him and he was +22. (I remember James said he didn't understand it when they cut him...he might have a case.) If the minutes aren't garbage time let's just face it we know Noah plays all the 0-0 games, all of the key moments against the key players, all the close games in the 4th quarter,etc. He passes the qualitative test by a mile in that not one of us thinks he isn't a good player. He's in the top 50 of the Hollinger PER (so is Boozer though). I don't know the nuances of that stat but it tries to score players on things that aren't in typical rankings. The Dr. says he adjusts for opposition to get these rankings but I don't think he adjusts for the specific players and that is a flaw. Playing against the Raptors 1st unit is tougher to me than the Clippers 2nd unit. If one scores minutes against the Clippers as superior opposition vs. the Raptors I'd want to know who those minutes were really against. Look the Bulls won a few games without Rose this year and Lucas played well. How much faith can I put in this in a playoff game? I don't even think this stuff is capable of being quantified nearly as much as it just has to be thought through. I've seen Korver for years. He's a good player ( I guess) He makes a few shots. He is +3. He's a good sub. Am I really supposed to think losing him is more harmful than losing Noah because the Bulls are outscoring their opposition when he is on the floor than when he isn't on the floor? I'll add I found a stat that supposedly adjusts for the opposition and Gibson is +16 and Noah is -4. Maybe there is something there. His 2 year ratings are +4 on that stat though and DR is -2 on a 2 year rating!! However, perhaps of note is that CJ Watson is -11 one year and -13 for 2 years. Even though Rose might be negative it is interesting that his replacement is far worse on the stat. Asik was -11 this year and that doesn't sound good compared to Noah although he's +6 for 2 years. Don't know anything about these stats really or what they mean. Noah doesn't look great on them but other guys look worse. Gibson is incredible but no matter how you slice it Noah gets 50% more minutes than Gibson it seems per game. Rose isn't particularly great either on these stats but not one guy in their dressing room isn't telling me he is their best player. I'm sure someone can reconcile this but I can't. It is a danger area. I would hold a much standard of proof somehow that Noah hurts the team.

Noah is their #1 win share player both overall and by minute played....but yeah hes killing them according to Bob.

[QUOTE=MikeRAS;52120]Noah is their #1 win share player both overall and by minute played....but yeah hes killing them according to Bob.[/QUOTE] Having this argument on EOG. Noah is their most valuable player and the cumulative effect makes the second starter's injury more damaging.