RAS WNBA plays are leaked early

RAS WNBA plays are leaked early Every day I'm on the phone with a reputable offshore book as the RAS release comes and each time someone makes the bet in front of me. I spoke to the supervisor today and asked how the hell I get clipped every time. Their response was "they have the play before the release, sir. Take it up with RAS" They know I'm watching the countdown screen but since I don't know which game it is, they won't hold the line for me. By the time I have it, someone else has already bet it. This book knows what's going on and they know that player has the play early. Either RAS is betting these games for themselves right in front of us or someone on the inside is leaking the plays. If they would wait until 8:30 each day there would be more places open so that those of us not on the inside would have a chance to make a bet. This is why I didn't subscribe during their basketball season. They don't work with the customer enough. It's BS that they can't wait until at least 8:30. We've been round and round about this.

Devil's advocate, but perhaps the book is lying to you

We encourage and will consider all feedback, including those regarding release times and methods. We have had very few requests (less than 5% of clients) of to push back our release time this WNBA season, and we have been in negative units until 5 days ago, so thus far it has not been a priority for us to consider it. Feel free to e-mail us directly with your request. I don't believe we have received any feedback from you regarding the current WNBA season yet, so I don't know how it is fair to say we are not working with our customers. I have always considered your feedback and taken the time to explain our thought process and positions in detail with you in the past. As for what you are experiencing at this particular book, feel free to e-mail me the details and I will look into it. If that is indeed happening, I have as much interest in stopping it as anyone.

I've always maintained that it's very difficult to get down on a lot of the RAS plays and I haven't seen much lately to alter that opinion. But they also do a great job of monitoring complaints like this, responding, and taking steps to remedy problems. Joel's comment should also be considered. People will usually say whatever's convenient to deflect heat.

[QUOTE=anthony;52726]I've always maintained that it's very difficult to get down on a lot of the RAS plays and I haven't seen much lately to alter that opinion. But they also do a great job of monitoring complaints like this, responding, and taking steps to remedy problems. Joel's comment should also be considered. People will usually say whatever's convenient to deflect heat.[/QUOTE] It is fairly common knowledge that it can be a challenge to get our release lines before movement. There are warnings and specific information posted about this right on our website. It is not something that we are trying to hide and we'll happily give a prorated refund to anyone who is not satisfied with the service for any reason at any time. We are accepting of the fact that we can only target and serve a much smaller and select pool of clients due to the challenges that line movement and market conditions present. With that said, there are still many active subscribers who are able to get down enough at our release line or better to justify the cost of the service. If or when that becomes no longer the case, we'll have to change our business model.

Sorry to take so long to respond; I was out all morning. The Book in question is Bookmaker. They are not lying. I'm on the phone each day with them and every time I request a game it is already being held for someone else. I ask them "what do I have to do to get you to hold the lines on the 2 or 3 games that day" just for 5 or 10 seconds before release. They always say, you need to know which game it is and we'll "take it off" for you. They said today, like many days, I called in before the other guy but I didn't know which game to hold. I ask for a rundown so they might hold all games but that doesn't fly with them. They said the other guy calls in after me but right before release and he doesn't hesitate; he knows which game to play. I am than offered a 2 point line move on the total, which I then refuse. With regard to the RAS defense that I haven't emailed or spoken to you directly on this season my response is that I've had many conversations and emails with you about this in the past and while our dialogue has been professional and cordial, I feel you are very determined to release when it suits you. I've made it clear that it would help me personally a great deal if you waited until 8:30. You have many things to consider and have chosen not to accommodate that request. That is your business decision; mine was to not subscribe last basketball season because I couldn't get down. Let's not say we haven't had this discussion just because I don't renew the process with each season. I can't tell you how many times I've geared up to get down on these plays having a book on the phone and several browsers locked and loaded and can't get a whiff at the release number. My off screen books don't have WNBA available that early in the morning. They are happy to let Bookmaker and Pinnacle take the barrage in the morning and then post a line after the dust settles. You've got to be lightning quick to get the bet in at Pinnacle and I'm offered a line move from BM. You may have some subscribers that get down something at an offscreen or bookie but I expect there are a larger number of your subscribers who are in my frustrated position. I suspect many of your subscribers just take bad numbers and hope for the best. My position remains the same: Please release when the majority of the books are open. Thanks.

I think a big part of the disconnect here is that in our view, the majority of books are open when we release. Certainly, all major onscreens are up and at full gameday limits, and over half of the most common offscreen softwares are up as well. There may be a handful of other options if we waited until 9am PST, and another handful a few hours beyond that, but at some point it becomes counterproductive to hold the release back as we'll risk losing value and volume. There isn't a huge margin for error in this market. Now if I was hearing similar feedback from even 10-20% of subscribers, we would probably reconsider the release time, but that just hasn't come close to being the case yet, and we constantly take surveys and encourage this type of feedback. As for BM, there is no way any one from RAS is betting there before release, and if someone somehow had rogue access to our plays early, they would be an idiot to bet them at BM. It's probably not hard to get the right game held before release on 1 to 3 game cards, ask them if the player knew the actual play before it was released, or was just holding the game? That would actually be a pretty good strategy. Similar to having multiple Pinn max bets sitting on confirm as was discussed on this forum previously. Aside from that, getting the release line at BM is very high on level of difficulty, not far behind Pinnacle. I hear of people being able to get the release line at BM from time to time, but never on a consistent basis. If that is really your only option at release time, you are going to be up against it no matter what.

I'd have more options if you'd wait until at least 8:30. Tradewinds, Catalina, TopCat, BetEagle, Absolutewager, 1tiger, Wh22, and Betmacho (to name several of the offscreens I have access to) don't have WNBA lines at 8am. Not to mention Vegas books aren't taking action that early either. Somehow, I'm the only one with this issue. OK. Since clearly I am incompetent and everyone else finds it so easy to get down on your plays, perhaps I should just post-up money with you and you can get me down on your plays! We'll grade it all publicly here in the forum; I'll post the money with Anthony and it's a win-win!

[QUOTE=Calsport;52732]I'd have more options if you'd wait until at least 8:30. Tradewinds, Catalina, TopCat, BetEagle, Absolutewager, 1tiger, Wh22, and Betmacho (to name several of the offscreens I have access to) don't have WNBA lines at 8am. Not to mention Vegas books aren't taking action that early either. Somehow, I'm the only one with this issue. OK. Since clearly I am incompetent and everyone else finds it so easy to get down on your plays, perhaps I should just post-up money with you and you can get me down on your plays! We'll grade it all publicly here in the forum; I'll post the money with Anthony and it's a win-win![/QUOTE] Either you have the outs/resources or you don't. We provide as much information/advice as possible to help clients get our releases lines, and consider all feedback given by clients, but at the end of the day, if you can't get the lines, request a refund and move on. You aren't the only one with this issue, but others aren't going on public forums and zinging out accusations of wrongdoing without proper due dilligence because they themselves are unable to get down. Just because you cannot get down, doesn't mean that it is impossible for others, or that we are leaking plays. It isn't, and we aren't. It is odd that you have access to that many outs, but not one of the dozens of on and offscreens (not named Pinn or BM) who do have lines up at 8am and earlier. Additionally, none of the books you named are up consistently at 8:30 anyway, we would have to wait until 9:30 or later to really have an impact on your list, and even then there would be no guarantee that they wouldn't adjust to a new release time anyway. It is hard for us to justify that for the trade off of having the rest of the subscriber base wait 90+ minutes longer for the plays, and risk losing line value and play volume in what is already a very tight market at 8am.

"Not to mention Vegas books aren't taking action that early either" This is true - I have Cantor, Leroy, Stations mobile accounts & depending on the day & time of year no lines are up till 8:30 am LVH is open but they have no mobile access / the others mentioned above are open also at the bricks & mortars location - - -