VpFree2 accuracy

Long time fan and recently started buying the coupon book again.

Got a quick question about VpFree2 (being an avid player).

Living in Cincinnati there is a Hollywood casino property, close by in Lawrenceburg, IN. VpFree2 has a listing of their inventory but it does not include their 9/6 JoB, only lower return games. I've posted on their site but did not get a response after some months. I know you only link to the site and don't maintain it but I thought you might be interested that it is not up to date or accurate at least for the Midwest. Would love to hear your thoughts.

Please keep doing what you do. Nice to get some real content.

Regards,

Rick

LVA has no relationship with VPFree2. The Bouries, Matt and Steve, used to maintain the site back in their American Casino Guide days (and they had a good coupon book and an informative website, so they completed directly with LVA), but now, they've been reduced to making performative YouTube videos of them playing horribly negative VP in Florida while the son snarls at the father. Mildly entertaining.

Anyway, there is somebody still keeping the site on life support, but as you say, much of the info is horribly outdated. I don't think that's the fault of the site's keeper, whoever he is, because I've sent updates via their website and those updates have been added fairly quickly. I think it's just that VPFree2 isn't as popular as it used to be and they don't get as many updates as they used to. Looking at the "What's New" pages on the site, it looks like most of the updates they still get are from Vegas.

It's a real service to other players to share game info, so it would be nice if you could try again to submit your info. In the past, I've received an acknowledgement very quickly and my updates were posted within a few days. Let us know if you still don't get a response.

I have found that the best way to submit an update to vpfree2 is to click on "Submit update for this casino" on any of your casino's pages. It takes you to a form to fill out like this one: https://www.vpfree2.com/casino/hollywood-casino-lawrenceburg/feedback?2

You can also just use the Contact Us link but that may take longer to get to the updater.

By the way, someone reported that all the 9/6 JoB were removed from Hollywood Lawrenceburg eight months ago.

That's how I've submitted all my updates, and they've always been incorporated in a week or less.

One badly needed category of updates is the players' club specs. Too often, downgrades aren't reported. That info can be as valuable as game availability.

As noted, vpFree2 is mostly (I'd guess 90%+) dependent on reports from players like us; in less popular markets (i.e., anywhere but Vegas), those reports are few and far between.  In Vegas, I usually report anything new (as per LVNow's explanation above), a monitor who lives in Vegas sometimes goes out to the casino to verify, and the new info is posted.  That happens a lot less frequently in less traveled markets (Mississippi Gulf Coast, for example; even less so in Florida).  Your report will be welcomed.

Rick, I will ask the vpfree2 admin to look into this. When did you last see the 9/6 JoB there? And in what denominations and at what location? Did the 5-coin royal pay 4000 or 2500 coins? That's becoming a common way for casinos to downgrade paytables.

Actually, shrinking the royal payout is rare, because inevitably, someone will hit a royal and then be shocked and horrified when they get shorted. Then they'll complain--loudly. After all, how often do you look at the royal payout when selecting a machine? You assume it'll be 4,000 coins at max bet.

I got had that way at the Horseshoe in Shreveport, or was it Tunica? I hit a $625 quarter royal. Then I remember coming across some dude who had hit a royal on a $2 game and was getting paid $4000--half what the payout "should" have been. He was happy as a clam in fresh mud, and I didn't have the heart to tell him that he'd just been fucked out of four grand.

Kevin, I agree with LVNow, I've seen lots of 2500 coin royals, it's been a common way to screw players for at least 10 or 15 years.  I've seen it at Hard Rock here in Tampa, on the Strip and at Binions for a while.  Not as egregious as the 8/5 BP with a push on 2 pair that the D used to have at the long bar (maybe they still do, don't know), but egregious enough.  Yeah, you have to check every line of the pay table, every time.

My local casino used to have the 2500 coin JoB royal; now they have an 8/5 JoB with a 5000 coin royal, still not good.

It might be relatively prevalent outside of Vegas, where the players aren't as sophisticated. The only Vegas example I've ever seen is when Binion's put in .25 9/6 JOB with a 2500 coin royal.

But in any event, there are LOTS of much more subtle ways to squeeze VP players. An interesting story is that that was the original impetus behind the installation of games like Double and Double Double Bonus. The story goes, they thought that downgrading the two pair payout would much more than just pay for the big quad hands; it would make the whole game murderous. They didn't anticipate VP experts crafting a complex and counterintuitive strategy that made the game +EV. For a while, it was the game of choice, not because of its modest positive return, but because people got comped up the wazoo for playing it and it could be attached to some great lucrative promotions.

I can't imagine anyone tolerating a short-royal game, but if they're as prevalent as you say, well...obviously, being paid $625 instead of $1000 doesn't bother people...? Gaah!