Vegas Wins, I surrender

jjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjj- YOU are Funny Sir! Yeah, stand behind me........you Know how I LUV That!

TB- I didn't hear anything about lucky glitter? Glitter should have been all over your hands while
those poker cards were being dealt on the river. There is the problem.

As far as Vp. You have more restraint than most humans. And you were talking about coins, so
I'm guessing penny vp? You THINK too much. But thats you. Mr. Spock is your Uncle, right?

I know you already have a Car in town, so the people suggesting a rental car.........well its a good idea,
but you already have wheels.........do more exploring. Bring your hedge clippers next time, and you
can help me with some chores. Also got some painting to do.........I'll keep you busy with non-gambling.

Next trip will be better TB. I'm guessing Noahcat will make Next trip, so you'll both have Supervision.

Just don't stand behind me.

TB, seriously, I would try some new games.

Have you tried playing Pai Gow?

I find it a really interesting game!!!

You can bet small and still win a lot on the bonus bet.

My last trip when I hit a Royal Flush with $50 up for a $7,500 win was nice!!!

I mention it because about 10 minutes later a fellow next to 3rd base hit one too!

He only had $5 on the bonus but he got $750 for it. I got $50 out of it due to my ENVY BET qualification.

He got $50 earlier from my RF.

Anyway, try a new game. If not Pai Gow then
something else.

CLV, I did not know you felt uncomfortable
having people standing behind you.

Did they not give you helpful advice and as a bonus an opportunity for you to make a brand new friend?

Wow, TB! Thanks for that report and I'm sorry to read about your gaming woes!

As for Blackjack, really basically the only place that I'll play it is at El Cortez since their rules (at least at the $5 minimum level for the Single-Deck game) are a lot better than elsewhere. Maybe you should try playing at Hacienda Casino since their rules (at least as reported in the Las Vegas Blackjack Survey link that is in the https://wizardofvegas.com website ) for their Single-Deck 3 To 2 game are better than anywhere else in the Las Vegas area for a much lower minimum bet ($2).

As for losses in a row in Blackjack, I tend to stop play (at least for a little bit) if I lose five in a row.

As for Video Poker, there is some playable Nickel stuff at Four Queens and Las Vegas Club, so maybe you should check that out.

What has also helped me is to have a reasonable Win Goal and Loss Limit for each playing session and then when you hit either of them, you can stop to take a break for a while.

What I think is a good Win Goal for the lower volatility games (like 9/6 JOB, Pick 'Em [Pick-A-Pair] or possibly 8/5 BP) would be about $20 to $30 (on a Quarter machine with full coin-in) and a Loss Limit of no more than $60.

With a higher volatility game like 10/7 Double Bonus Poker (this would go as well for a good Deuces Wild game), I then would have a playing session Win Goal of about $30-$37.50 and a Loss Limit of no more than $75.

I hope that this helps you!

RecVPPlayer

I know people who have lost over $10K playing quarter FPDW before finally having it turn around. I think people sometime underestimate the brutal streaks of VP.

Sorry to hear about your bad luck.

tennis_bum, I feel your pain and wanted to give you some of my opinions for what it's worth.

First off, although you think you are playing premium games perhaps you should consider other options. First off you say you play Kings or Better Full pay Joker Poker. This actually is 98.44% return far worse than 9/6 JOB at 99.54%. . But when looking at the Variance/Volitility ratings KB JP is much worse. (Variance - The difference between your short term results and long term expectation.) This is also true regarding your playing of DB which has a high Variance rating.

9/6 JOB variance 19.5, Double Bonus 28.3, Dueces Wild, 25.8 Joker Poker has a variance of around 25.0 Of course adding bonus and promotions will bring these numbers up. This is why people play 9/6 JOB to get free room offers. The variance is low so you can play a long time and run a lot of coins through. Granted you may not win a lot unless you get a royal but you will not lose as much which might be important to getting your confidence back.

Many people just look at the return percentage when thinking "Full Pay" which is where you get caught up. For example, Loose Dueces payback is 100.15% but it's variance is a whopping 70.7. You will more likely lose more often playing this game. Same goes for DDB which has a 42.2 variance vs 9/6 JOB's 19.5. If you are discouraged with your outcome than my suggestion is to do the following.
1. play a game with lower variance at lower denominations.

2. Use Winpoker or the like and double check to make sure you are playing perfectly. If you are playing at 98% efficiency that isn't going to cut it. You must play perfectly and have a strategy card handy at the machine.

3. Play promotions like video poker and slot tournaments and enter any free drawings. I have won several $500 and $1,000 drawings at the M Resorts promotions with very little time and effort and of course a lot of luck. Also play some Blackjack tournaments which will sharpen your game and very little cost and you might even win. If you do win slot credits "churn" then through and take the cash. I took $1,000 free slot play and turned it into $1,200 by playing 16 hands of $1.25 9/6 JOB ($20worth) and then cashing it out and then downloading another $20 ect.. By keeping the volitility low I was less interested in getting a Royal and more interested in getting cash out.
4. If you play Blackjack learn basic strategy down pat and learn how to count using either KO Blackjack which is one of the best books to understand the concept of Counting or Hi Low which is the industry standard. Again Blackjack tournaments is a good way to practice for free or low cost. If you play blackjack and are in Las Vegas or anywhere for that matter you must seek out premium games. Not 6/5 blackjack games. You would need to play a good double deck game (with a deeper cut) and good rules like double after split, resplit aces ect. or a 6 deck game with S17 and a deep cut with good rules like surrender. They are out there you just have to hunt for them. On the other hand if you play most of the junk games on the strip like Harrah's BJ, Rio Blackjack, Casino Royale, you will lose more often. You will lose also at better Blackjack games but your overall chance of winning will be better than other casino games.

As far as Poker goes I suspect/hope that you have read most of the golden books on poker and poker strategy. Most of the time your mindset should not be how to play the hand but coming up with a reason to get out of the hand. You should consider playing a game wherer the object is to play just to win the blinds and stay out of the rest of the hands. You could get about $20+ an hour doing that. Again poker tournaments are a great way to sharpen your game and get a lot of play in without much risk.

Just my opinion.
Packrat

"For example, Loose Dueces payback is 100.15% but it's variance is a whopping 70.7. You will more likely lose more often playing this game. Same goes for DDB which has a 42.2 variance vs 9/6 JOB's 19.5. If you are discouraged with your outcome than my suggestion is to do the following."

LUV Loose deuces, IF you can find them. They're getting harder & harder to find.......
Had a freak win in Reno on LD, over Hot Aug. nights.......

Was playing on one machine when I noticed LD on the dollar machine next to me.
WOW Loose Deuces...............I love that game........so stuck in a $20.
On my First hand, held 1 deuce, and the other 3 filled in. $2,500 in ONE HAND.
Talk about shocker........THAT was sweet.

All is Not Lost........ You've had a few good ones TB......

I'm sure you remember that Dealt RF 10 play you got at SS. Wasn't it close to 2 grand on Pennies?
Not too shabby Sir.

Remember the good times TB, and don't give up.
I think trying different games like jjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjj said, is a fine idea too.

I'm sorry to hear about this bad luck! I'm sure things will get better. We all have our streaks. I've been doing pretty well for quite some time now, so I know I could go the other way. I always expect the worst, but hope for the best. If you enjoy it, do it. When it's not fun, take a break!

You do enjoy a lot besides gambling! We sure enjoy spending time with you!

Wishing you much better luck in 2012!

PS: The last 2 trips to Vegas Dennis has dealt with his shingles & back issues (you saw him at his worst last summer). We're heading there Tuesday & hope that he makes it with no issues. He hasn't had much luck as well, so hopefully this third trip will be the charm. We're starting off well as we got airfare for both of us under $400 which is why we're going.

First, a comment on math. On the three hands I lost in the second session, I was good to all but 5 outs on the river. So on the river, I had a loss probability of 5/44. Cube that to get the chance of lossing all three ON THE RIVER. That's 1 in 681 (rounding). Granted, not 1 in a 1,000, but I'm not feeling any better with 1 in 681.

As for basic strategy, I admit that I'm out of practice so I'm not using matrix numbers much, and there are a few points of basic strategy that I'm unsure of (such as the cut-off of doubling A3). But I think the places I'm unsure about come up very rarely, so it theoretically won't affect the bottom line much.

As for my Joker game, I believe it's over 100% -- at least that's was VPfree and other websites say. Those websites say I'm playing a game with 100.65% payoff. As to trying to do better with JOB, I've done even worse with JOB. The few times I played that I was hitting 30% loss rate. The good news, I'm pretty constant at losing with that. It's been a VERY steady loss.

Non-math issues:
Rick: what you said is what I'm going to try to do. My winnings won't come at the tables. Gambling will be for me (though not for N'cat) completely secondard. Secondary... I think it my be about 12th on the list. Tough, I don't think it's pressure. It's more my competitve nature. And my knowledge of probability that keeps telling me, this isn't possible.

jjjj, you're so right about CLV. She loves to have people stand behind her and cheer her on -- especially when she hits. I'll run around screaming and pointing. Next time I'm going to bring a giant sign. Pai Gow? Hmmm. Not a game that really interests me much. I played it once with a free entry in a tournament. I won. But it was luck. I hit four winning hands in the last four hands where betting was unlimited. I doubled 4 times and took huge lead. The only other interest I've had has been LOTR slot which I do just a little bit. I used to play craps on occasion -- for quarters. Real quarters. I buy in for $10 then drink for free and watch my quarters come and go and cash out down a buck or two. Even worse, I tipped quarters for the drinks. (note: this was in the 1980's) That game came back big time. I see tables crowded now. Was going to teach N'cat craps one day.

CLV, I was referring to FPVP. In non-full pay, I've definitely hit. A dealt Royal for 2 grand, and another Royal on the LVA deal for more than $200 (nickels).

My problem with Loose Deuces is you really have to hit Deuces once in awhile. This trip had the first time I've hit deuces in something like 7 years. Maybe I'll give them a try. I've never looked at the strategy for that game. I've got the DWFP strategy down pretty well.

By the way, I am playing nickel already. Occasionally dime. I'm SO GLAD I wasn't playing quarter.

raaajaaa, I use a VP program. Tracked hundred of thousands of hands -- my rating was over 99.9%. Btw, on those hundreds of thousands of hands, I had a loss rate of something like 14%. As for blackjack, I already count. I use Wong's halves which is a multi-level system and has one of the highest bet efficiencies. However, lately, I haven't been altering my bets much. I see mostly negative counts and haven't felt like pressing much bets.

As for playing NO Limit Poker, that game is not for me. It doesn't fit my mentality. I'll lay my hand down way too much. People come over the top of me with anything. Also, the few times I played, big bets never got anyone out. The first time I ever played no-limit on line I lost 4oak on the flop to guy playing pocket 10's and caught 10's on the turn and river. Perfect-perfect. All that seems to happen is I lose a lot more money at once.

Thanks everyone for your comments and suggestions.

I appreciate you taking the time to rework your math. I will add one more comment: If I play an eight or ten hour session in a loose low-limit $3-6 game, I will be in a hand with TPTK against some kid drawing to five outs quite frequently. I am going to lose to him once or twice a night. Do I have a right to claim the odds of losing to three separate five outers in a night is 1000 to 1 or even 681 to 1?

"On the three hands I lost in the second session, I was good to all but 5 outs on the river. So on the river, I had a loss probability of 5/44. Cube that to get the chance of lossing all three ON THE RIVER. That's 1 in 681 (rounding). Granted, not 1 in a 1,000, but I'm not feeling any better with 1 in 681."
My head hurts just readin this..

It was 2 or 3 trips ago you won at Terrible and Sunset getting 11 progressive Royals but OK..I've seen first hand your awful losing streak(s)
and your poker bad beats are legend.

You didn't ask for advice. All comments and replies are funny, except for jjjj21s about standing behind CLV- thats pure comedy gold.
I like a watcher.. heck, I almost NEED a watcher and ur a good watcher.
I have not been winning but it's thrilling to get my money (almost fully) back and that is whats been happening to me.
I'm almost done w/ Double STP w/ cheese and Ul. X except in nickels; a hundred goes too fast..

You are more well rounded than most of us so walking, eating, movies and people watching are all worth doing in vegas- resting your "wonderful mind".
You remain a lifetime winner at Houdini and possibly even LOTRs (before this trip), shame Two Towers replaced most of them.
and I am so sorry I had to cancel my trip w/ you. I know I'm forgiven but it's an awful thing.
But..
Back to you-- the idea of planning to lose the money your bring to gamble is smart/ I've done it- laid out my stake on the bed pre-trip and honestly ask myself "Are you willing to lose all of this gambling?!?- well, are you punk?":<;. Aces, Deuces and Royals come too few- so it was to be the entertainment value I have to look forward to- and cashing out if one bets a nice bonus round on those fun video slots.

P.S. Glitter is a state of mind- and I know you channeled me a time or two...but you know I wouldn't dare go into a casino w/o the real thing.
Thanks for the report.