Vegas Wins, I surrender

Yes, definitely as raajaa (Packrat) said, Variance (the volatility rating of the game) is important.

The game return percentage isn't the be all and end all that people think it is! I really restrict my VP play to games where the Variance is no more than about 29. And so I will Never (at least normally) play Double Double Bonus Poker since its Variance is 42!

If a person wants to play for a longer time, it is better to have a smoother ride and not be more prone to having wild up and down streaks (which is what higher Variance games tend to offer)!

I definitely understand how people can find these more volatile games to be "fun," but at least for me they can become too brutal and leave players with a much more uphill battle to face.

RecVPPlayer

TB, I've had a year like your last trip. Boo...hiss...
Our CPA is gonna wonder what happened...very few W2-Gs this year.

Additionally, I've always been able to count on Blackjack to pull me out of the dumper when VP did a number on me.

Yet, the last trip, I had some sessions where "my" dealers were feeling majorly sorry for me...actually cursing (and they aren't supposed to!) when they pulled 21s to my 20s, beat my for certain good double hands, failed to bust on their 6s.

Somebody is messing with us.

Anyway...I know a guy who would love to drag you out to a shooting range when in Vegas. Maybe I'll go along too...(just kidding on that).
PM on the way.

Sorry to hear about the psychological beat down. That is a bummer and more so if you are that person who is at the bottom end of variance without benefit of the top end sometimes to return some of your losses and reward you with a winning high. But, if the play is no longer enjoyable (for whatever reason, even just being unlucky) then it IS time to change your focus or move onto something else.

I can only comment on VP, but if you consider just the base game and do not consider the rooms/food/comps/enjoyment facter into the equation, it is VERY difficult to get to theoretical return. It is a common experience for me to lose 20% to 30% of a RF in a session of a few hours on JOB. It is a rare occurance to break even and rarer still to win. That's a low variance game with a return under 100%. You move to KBJW or DB with a return over 100% but with complicated perfect strategy and higher variance and I just don't think you will see theoretical return unless you are lucky. So, I think you pretty much must enjoy the play itself to participate in it.

I wish you winning in the future or at least for the enjoyment factor of your vacation to fill in the variance!

TB,
I know how you feel. I have not had a winning trip in Vegas for at least 4 or 5 years now. Will I keep going? Yes. Do I gamble as much as in the past. NO! I haven't pulled an all nighter at a BJ table now for years. Will I again. Yes, as long as I am winning or staying close to even and having fun. Here is a for instance on how bad my luck was at BJ on my last trip. I am sitting at third base with one other person at the table. I am losing like crazy and the other person is winning like crazy. I move to first base thinking I will now get all the winning cards and the other person at the table will get my bad cards. Wrong. Just like that the cards went the opposite way and I continued to lose and the other person continued to win. It was one of the strangest and most annoying sessions I have ever had at BJ.

Tennis Bum,

Thanks for starting this thread... it seems cathartic in a way by posting on it.

I too have had several losing Las Vegas trips in a row (as chronicled here )and worst of all, my online poker play has been costing me money as well. Although my own records and online tracking software indicate that I am "up" overall since I started playing online poker, it's of little solace when you are mired in a bad losing streak.

With regards to poker, there's a reason why the live hold'em tables always make room for up to 11 players. It increases the luck factor. When 6 or more players call pre-flop raises, everyone has the correct odds to draw at anything post flop. It becomes more of a drawing game, with the luckiest players winning the pot. The casino wants this to occur since the luck factor will be spread out evenly across all 11 players and everyone will win and lose more or less equally. Everyone except for the casino which will eventually grind down everyone with the rake. In the $2-$4 games, I bet $100 (in rake) or more is taken off those table each hour.

Having definite win goals and stop-loss limits help... if you abide by them. I find that whenever I deviate from my pre-determined goals, I end up losing money.

Play for stakes where losing won't bother you psychologically or hurt you financially. For my upcoming March Las Vegas trip, I plan on taking advantage of several Casino promotions for comped rooms and free slot play. I don't however plan on "playing at my historical levels".

Candy, I do need to spend more time at range. I checked and Tom is still doing his safari's. What I'd like is to spend time with a nice rifle and one 1911 9mm.

Bigfus, I do justify my losses by including the comps. My trip included spending time in Southern California. I spend about $130 a day in food/lodging/entertainment in SoCal. I spend about $120 in Vegas which includes gambling losses. But I think I'd be better to lose $50 and put $50 into other activities.

By the way, I'm hoping we'll put together our usually ECLVA trip in July/August. N'cat's going to need Vegas by then. She'll be in a full-year withdraw.

Todd, fortunately my blackjack has better lately. But a two years ago, several times I sat at a table I'd be the only person losing.

a2a3: Several years ago I was playing $2-$4 at Orleans. I had played for hours. I was down very slightly, so I still had most of my $100 buy-in. Then I started thinking. A new person sat down usually with a full rack of chips about every 20 to 30 minutes. And yet, no one had a pile of chips in front of them. That's when I finally did the calculation. With a shuffling machine, it may be something like $150 a hour being dropped. More than a full rack disappears from the table every hour. That's going to be true not only on $2-$4, but also $4-8 or no limit. But it's harder to fight the drop at a $2-4. But I'm okay with that. I don't mind playing for 3 hours and walking away even. My problem is playing for 3 hours having won a single hand. It's not the money. It's the emotional grind.

Work is going to be demanding for the next several months. There are lay-offs where I work (I think it's very unlikely for one to be me), and I'm very involved in planning and decision making. It's high-stress. So in mid-summer, I'm hoping to vacate in Vegas -- with no worries about gaming and a complete emphasis on fun and entertainment.