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7 setbacks for the middle class

alanleroy
alanleroy
Jan 25, 2014
6:08am
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Quote
Originally posted by: pjstroh
Quote
Originally posted by: alanleroy
Quote
Originally posted by: jillyf
Quote
Originally posted by: alanleroy
If the problem you're really trying to solve is Poverty, there are far better ways to solve that than by distorting the market for labor.
Well, I can think of one way … MAGIC!! Hurray!
(I would say voodoo, but we all know that's a load of bull.)

The USA has had minimum wage laws for 75 years. And yet there are now 47 million Americans living in poverty. That's obviously not a solution to poverty. In fact, it guarantees that those most in need of a job will never find one because they are priced out of the market for labor.

It's actually far better to get rid of every State, Local and Federal Government program for the poor...get rid of the minimum wage..AND JUST GIVE POOR PEOPLE MONEY. Sure, some will be content to live on the dole..But, hey I just solved the problem of Poverty in the USA and saved billions of dollars by eliminating our bloated system of income redistribution....and it didn't take me 50 years.

And guess who's against such a program...Republican and Democrat politicians. There you go. It must be good.


Minimum wage has not kept up with inflation. If it did it would be over $10/hour today...which would also lift those respective workers out of poverty.

Explain to me how "giving poor people money" is different from " our bloated system of income redistribution".

1. What about all of the workers who don't get jobs or lose their jobs because their skills aren't worth $10 an hour? Also, using your logic, if the only issue is that we didn't index minimum wage to inflation, then when the minimum wage was established it would have eliminated poverty. That didn't happen. Eliminating the minimum wage eliminates unemployment. Eliminating Poverty is another topic.

2. In my scenario, you have one program that directly gives people money. The current system of income redistribution has thousands of programs staffed by hundreds of thousands of bureaucrats. Some of these programs are redundant. Some of these programs are ineffective. Many of these programs are inefficient. All of these programs have different rules, different methods of funding, different thresholds, different applications and objectives. Just show them the money and eliminate poverty....if that's the real objective.

3. My real objective was to point out that there many different views on what questions we should really be asking and what answers are appropriate. In fact the concept of addressing poverty by giving the poor money through a single direct payment was advanced by that bastion of liberal thinking...Milton Friedman.

It's not....Either you support the minimum wage or you hate poor people as most PJ examples seem to indicate.

malibber2
malibber2
Jan 25, 2014
7:07am
Block User
Difference between Republicans and Democrats:
Republicans - They make it clear they want to forcibly sodomize you and everyone else in the middle class.
Democrats - They concede you and the middle class are going to get forcibly sodomized, but they try and negotiate for some lube.
forkushV
forkushV
Jan 25, 2014
7:35am
Block User
Quote
Originally posted by: alanleroy
...What about all of the workers who don't get jobs or lose their jobs because their skills aren't worth $10 an hour?...
Higher minimum wage costs jobs? Probably a myth:




alanleroy
alanleroy
Jan 25, 2014
8:02am
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Quote
Originally posted by: forkushV
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Originally posted by: alanleroy
...What about all of the workers who don't get jobs or lose their jobs because their skills aren't worth $10 an hour?...
Higher minimum wage costs jobs? Probably a myth:



Economists disagree on the impact of the minimum wage on employment. There are hundreds of papers and studies on both sides of this issue. Some believe it reduces the pay of slightly higher paid workers. Others show it reduces benefits or hours or training. Still others claim businesses simply live with lower profits or raise prices.

Unfortunately ALL of these studies are comparing a minimum wage with a slightly higher minimum wage. I suggested there should be no minimum wage and poverty should be addressed not by corrupting the market for labor and hamstringing our businesses but by direct transfer payments to the poor combined with the elimination of the current bloated government distribution system. The 50 year multi-trillion dollar War on Poverty has been an epic failure....as 50 years later Poverty is the clear victor. Time for some new approaches.


My take is minimum wage increases speeds up the march to the automation of the vast majority of minimum wage jobs.


esteskefauver
esteskefauver
Jan 25, 2014
8:06am
Block User
If life were fair the people that voted for Obama twice would lose their citizenship. Those that voted for him once would be suspended for one Presidential election(although you'd be hard-pressed to find anyone admitting to being a 2008 Obama voter). But, life isn't fair. We waste too much money trying to make life fair for everybody. Those that want success can find it easier here than anywhere else in the world. Those that don't want to sacrifice should get what they deserve. The government should provide for all the rest that lack the mental or physical capabilities to be successful.
jillyf
jillyf
Jan 25, 2014
8:47am
Block User
Quote
Originally posted by: esteskefauver
If life were fair the people that voted for Obama twice would lose their citizenship.
When you kick down my door, you know how I will come? This time, it's legal. My people held the center at Gettysburg.
jillyf
jillyf
Jan 25, 2014
9:00am
Block User
Quote
Originally posted by: alanleroy ...What about all of the workers who don't get jobs or lose their jobs because their skills aren't worth $10 an hour?...
Wealthy young jillyf believes alanleroy's false notions are based on the naive assumption that total social wages are static, such that additional wages paid to some must come from the wages of others.

Now if alanleroy had PROOF that minimum wage laws reduce real GDP, that would be a different discussion.
esteskefauver
esteskefauver
Jan 25, 2014
10:17am
Block User
Quote
Originally posted by: jillyf
Quote
Originally posted by: esteskefauver
If life were fair the people that voted for Obama twice would lose their citizenship.
When you kick down my door, you know how I will come? This time, it's legal. My people held the center at Gettysburg.


You're response to my quote makes no sense.

LMAO. Your people? I've never used that term and couldn't even tell you who "my people" are. You apparently are weak enough that you have to associate yourself with a subset of people, but anything that happened at Gettysburg has zero to do with you.
drmilled
drmilled
Jan 25, 2014
10:20am
Block User
I am pleased to see that some are trying to think thru the issues - others are doing their usual finger pointing and bashing while offering nothing of consequence towards the issues. Here is a thought, try re reading the facts that are stated in the article and try and address the issues with a goal of solving the issues. It is apparent that the current Obama administration would rather ignore the Constitution and just enact whatever laws they want, without regard to legality or overall effect of such laws.
forkushV
forkushV
Jan 25, 2014
10:31am
Block User
Quote
Originally posted by: drmilled
...It is apparent that the current Obama administration would rather ignore the Constitution and just enact whatever laws they want, without regard to legality or overall effect of such laws.
Not exactly. Maybe you didn't hear about the following; it was in all the papers!




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