American employee participation rate data

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Originally posted by: malibber2
Although I don’t agree with Boiler on most political issues and he didn’t do a good job of citing evidence what he is talking about is a real phenomenon. There are tons of folks on disability in that 50-65 age group that dropped out of the job market and don’t really belong there. The truth is there is that there are simply not jobs for them so they apply for disability. They end up proving their case on appeal because the government can’t prove there is any jobs they can work even with relatively minor health issues. This doesn’t make them bad folks it just reflects a failure of government polices to adequately spur job creation and hold corporations socially responsible. It is not because the government has lowered the bar for qualifying the disability it is that private sector can't provide the jobs to say their is a legitimate job for them to go to.


The disability thing is a symptom not the disease itself. If you want to fix the problem adopt policies that create high paying jobs and encourage businesses to hire older folks.

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Originally posted by: Boilerman
People are qualifying as disabled at a fantastic rate. What more do I need to provide? Liberals tell us it's because of the economy, but I don't think this causes more people to get hurt.

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Originally posted by: malibber2
Although I don’t agree with Boiler on most political issues and he didn’t do a good job of citing evidence what he is talking about is a real phenomenon. There are tons of folks on disability in that 50-65 age group that dropped out of the job market and don’t really belong there. The truth is there is that there are simply not jobs for them so they apply for disability. They end up proving their case on appeal because the government can’t prove there is any jobs they can work even with relatively minor health issues. This doesn’t make them bad folks it just reflects a failure of government polices to adequately spur job creation and hold corporations socially responsible. It is not because the government has lowered the bar for qualifying the disability it is that private sector can't provide the jobs to say their is a legitimate job for them to go to.


The disability thing is a symptom not the disease itself. If you want to fix the problem adopt policies that create high paying jobs and encourage businesses to hire older folks.

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Originally posted by: malibber2
Yes, they are qualifying at a fantastic rate because the job market has changed not the disability rules. How the government traditionally wins a disability case is to prove that there are jobs available that a person can work with their impairment. If the government proves their case the ALJ says that person isn’t disabled and the government doesn’t have to pay them disability. However now that the job market has changed even people with relatively minor impairments qualify for disability. There was no rules change it is the private sector job market can no longer provide jobs for even people with minor old age related impairments.

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Originally posted by: Boilerman
People are qualifying as disabled at a fantastic rate. What more do I need to provide? Liberals tell us it's because of the economy, but I don't think this causes more people to get hurt.

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Originally posted by: malibber2
Although I don’t agree with Boiler on most political issues and he didn’t do a good job of citing evidence what he is talking about is a real phenomenon. There are tons of folks on disability in that 50-65 age group that dropped out of the job market and don’t really belong there. The truth is there is that there are simply not jobs for them so they apply for disability. They end up proving their case on appeal because the government can’t prove there is any jobs they can work even with relatively minor health issues. This doesn’t make them bad folks it just reflects a failure of government polices to adequately spur job creation and hold corporations socially responsible. It is not because the government has lowered the bar for qualifying the disability it is that private sector can't provide the jobs to say their is a legitimate job for them to go to.


The disability thing is a symptom not the disease itself. If you want to fix the problem adopt policies that create high paying jobs and encourage businesses to hire older folks.

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Originally posted by: pjstroh

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Originally posted by: malibber2
Yes, they are qualifying at a fantastic rate because the job market has changed not the disability rules. How the government traditionally wins a disability case is to prove that there are jobs available that a person can work with their impairment. If the government proves their case the ALJ says that person isn’t disabled and the government doesn’t have to pay them disability. However now that the job market has changed even people with relatively minor impairments qualify for disability. There was no rules change it is the private sector job market can no longer provide jobs for even people with minor old age related impairments.

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Originally posted by: Boilerman
People are qualifying as disabled at a fantastic rate. What more do I need to provide? Liberals tell us it's because of the economy, but I don't think this causes more people to get hurt.

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Originally posted by: malibber2
Although I don’t agree with Boiler on most political issues and he didn’t do a good job of citing evidence what he is talking about is a real phenomenon. There are tons of folks on disability in that 50-65 age group that dropped out of the job market and don’t really belong there. The truth is there is that there are simply not jobs for them so they apply for disability. They end up proving their case on appeal because the government can’t prove there is any jobs they can work even with relatively minor health issues. This doesn’t make them bad folks it just reflects a failure of government polices to adequately spur job creation and hold corporations socially responsible. It is not because the government has lowered the bar for qualifying the disability it is that private sector can't provide the jobs to say their is a legitimate job for them to go to.


The disability thing is a symptom not the disease itself. If you want to fix the problem adopt policies that create high paying jobs and encourage businesses to hire older folks.

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Wrong. Your disability status has nothing to do with available jobs. If you are a healthy warehouse laborer you do not suddenly qualify for disability if your warehouse shuts down. Are there people who fake being disabled? And are there doctors that help them fake it? Sure. According to the CNN article I posted it happens in every recession...like the one after the dot com bubble burst.

But the article also lists an aging population, a 12 year war, and more working women as big causes.

Here's what I cant find a reference to anywhere (and neither can Boilerman) - how the president altered policy to make it easier to get disability. George Bush didn't alter that policy 2000 when more people received disability then. Obama did not do it in 2009. And you wont find any posts from me accusing either president. Maybe I just have too much pride in my integrity to purposefully post BS.

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Originally posted by: pjstroh

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Originally posted by: malibber2
Yes, they are qualifying at a fantastic rate because the job market has changed not the disability rules. How the government traditionally wins a disability case is to prove that there are jobs available that a person can work with their impairment. If the government proves their case the ALJ says that person isn’t disabled and the government doesn’t have to pay them disability. However now that the job market has changed even people with relatively minor impairments qualify for disability. There was no rules change it is the private sector job market can no longer provide jobs for even people with minor old age related impairments.

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Originally posted by: Boilerman
People are qualifying as disabled at a fantastic rate. What more do I need to provide? Liberals tell us it's because of the economy, but I don't think this causes more people to get hurt.

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Originally posted by: malibber2
Although I don’t agree with Boiler on most political issues and he didn’t do a good job of citing evidence what he is talking about is a real phenomenon. There are tons of folks on disability in that 50-65 age group that dropped out of the job market and don’t really belong there. The truth is there is that there are simply not jobs for them so they apply for disability. They end up proving their case on appeal because the government can’t prove there is any jobs they can work even with relatively minor health issues. This doesn’t make them bad folks it just reflects a failure of government polices to adequately spur job creation and hold corporations socially responsible. It is not because the government has lowered the bar for qualifying the disability it is that private sector can't provide the jobs to say their is a legitimate job for them to go to.


The disability thing is a symptom not the disease itself. If you want to fix the problem adopt policies that create high paying jobs and encourage businesses to hire older folks.

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Wrong. Your disability status has nothing to do with available jobs. If you are a healthy warehouse laborer you do not suddenly qualify for disability if your warehouse shuts down. Are there people who fake being disabled? And are there doctors that help them fake it? Sure. According to the CNN article I posted it happens in every recession...like the one after the dot com bubble burst.

But the article also lists an aging population, a 12 year war, and more working women as big causes.

Here's what I cant find a reference to anywhere (and neither can Boilerman) - how the president altered policy to make it easier to get disability. George Bush didn't alter that policy 2000 when more people received disability then. Obama did not do it in 2009. And you wont find any posts from me accusing either president. Maybe I just have too much pride in my integrity to purposefully post BS.

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Originally posted by: malibber2
Here is how it works using your example. A fifty five year old warehouse worker loses his job and dutifully looks for a job and after some time passes realizes he probably isn’t going to be able to find one. He becomes depressed. He goes to see his doctor and gets a complete physical. The doctor finds Bob is legitimately depressed, has a bad back from working in the warehouse for the past 25 years and that his hearing is half gone from the noisy warehouse he worked in. Bob running out of options fills out a disability application claiming the legitimate impairments of a bad back, depression and poor hearing. Initially Bob is denied. Bob goes and sees an attorney and files an appeal.

At the hearing before the ALJ Bob’s attorney says there are no jobs for a 55 year old with the impairments of a bad back (lifting restrictions), bad hearing and depression. The government to avoid paying disability has to prove a 55 year old with a high school education, a bad back, bad hearing and depression can find gainful employment.

If you worked in some sort physical labor for the past 20 to 25 years and are in your late 40s or older there is a good chance you have some sort of legitimate impairment such as joints that need replacing, arthritis, poor hearing, or have restrictions on lifting, bending and so on. In the past someone like this would have just moved on to another line of work instead of filing the claim. Nowadays there aren’t that many lines of work fast food and retail is about it for someone with a HS education in some parts of the country. If you have ever worked in either of those fields you know they are extremely fast paced and require a lot of lifting, bending and standing on your feet for eight hours a day. If you can’t do these things you get disability.

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Originally posted by: pjstroh

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Originally posted by: malibber2
Here is how it works using your example. A fifty five year old warehouse worker loses his job and dutifully looks for a job and after some time passes realizes he probably isn’t going to be able to find one. He becomes depressed. He goes to see his doctor and gets a complete physical. The doctor finds Bob is legitimately depressed, has a bad back from working in the warehouse for the past 25 years and that his hearing is half gone from the noisy warehouse he worked in. Bob running out of options fills out a disability application claiming the legitimate impairments of a bad back, depression and poor hearing. Initially Bob is denied. Bob goes and sees an attorney and files an appeal.

At the hearing before the ALJ Bob’s attorney says there are no jobs for a 55 year old with the impairments of a bad back (lifting restrictions), bad hearing and depression. The government to avoid paying disability has to prove a 55 year old with a high school education, a bad back, bad hearing and depression can find gainful employment.

If you worked in some sort physical labor for the past 20 to 25 years and are in your late 40s or older there is a good chance you have some sort of legitimate impairment such as joints that need replacing, arthritis, poor hearing, or have restrictions on lifting, bending and so on. In the past someone like this would have just moved on to another line of work instead of filing the claim. Nowadays there aren’t that many lines of work fast food and retail is about it for someone with a HS education in some parts of the country. If you have ever worked in either of those fields you know they are extremely fast paced and require a lot of lifting, bending and standing on your feet for eight hours a day. If you can’t do these things you get disability.

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Your example may very well be common...which is to say losing a job is more apt to make one file for disability....but the judge's verdict does not consider a lack of available jobs. Its based upon the medical evidence of the subject. I'm sure some people exaggerate symptoms and doctors help them. I'm sure some people get disability that could probably work.

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