Arizona death panel?

You are mistaken when you assume I don't understand how it works. Believe me when I tell you, I completely understand how it works. My point is, organ transplants cost a fortune, and often delay death for a short amount of time. Further, many of those people who need them are suffering from something akin to self-inflicted wounds (not all, to be sure, but a large number - liver transplants from Hep C destruction, kidney transplants due to type II diabetes.... stuff that could have been avoided had people taken care of themselves better).

There are about 100,000 solid organ transplants are performed every year worldwide. Of this figure, 68,300 are kidney transplants, 19,900 are liver transplants, 5,200 are heart transplants, 3,250 are lung transplants and 2,800 are pancreas transplants. Overall, renal transplants account for almost 69% of all solid organ transplants, worldwide. The sad reality is that most cases of organ diseases are completely avoidable, with simple dietary and lifestyle adjustments.

Transplants are not cheap:

Organ Average Cost
Heart $148,000
Kidney $51,000
Liver $235,000
Pancreas $70,000
Heart/Lung $210,000

Source: Battelle Institute/Seattle Research Center


Does that mean we throw them to the wolves? No, but it also means that I don't want to have to pay much higher insurance premiums to fund the repair work.

Everyone on this board, take a look at how much you pay in insurance premiums. Is it not high enough for you? If we mandated private insurance coverage for these procedures, doesn't it follow that they'll go up? Does that make you happy? Does that seem like good public policy? Will that create more jobs or less jobs in the future? Does that make America more or less competitive, globally?

Malib, the Medicare shuffle game you cry is so unfair happens, voluntarily, all the time for nursing home coverage. People get real poor real fast (quick, nephew, take this $50k and hide it!) then go on the Government tit. For lefties (like you?) that's good, because your agenda is all about a larger, more intrusive government, and control of the citizenry/sheeple. For freedom lovers like me though, that's a bad thing.

sourced

and again

So, remind me again why Palin et al were so against death panels. Or is it ok to eliminate a certain procedure like transplantation entirely but not ok to make these decisions on a patient by patient basis.

The cost to benefit ratio is just not substantial enough in a lot of situations to justify an expensive procedure. But, how is that decision made? I think it's better to have a death panel than to eliminate the procedure entirely.

No, your politicians will do it for you!

Wow, you sons of bitches. I had a kidney transplant. Fortunately, I have private insurance. But my heart goes out to those who dont.

True, life isnt fair, but do you know what it costs to keep someone on kidney dialysis each month? Somewhere around 10-thousand dollars. Do you know what a transplant costs? About $200,000.

People on dialysis are considered "disabled" and are given disability benefits. People who have had transplants can return to work and full productive lives -- paying taxes too.

The average kidney dialysis patient waits 5 years for a transplant. Lets do some "math." 5 years at 10-thousand a month for dialysis, plus disability benefits from social security, perhaps even medicare and medical or whatever your state program is called, and the monthly cost for a non working, non taxpaying dialysis patient is probably about 15-thou per month or $180,000 per year. Gee, the break even on the transplant is a little over a year. Isnt that amazing??

I have come to know a lot of people forced to give up prestigious careers because they went on dialysis. I was lucky. I owned my company so I was able to continue working, but damn, I wouldnt wish that hell on anybody. But those who cant work leave a tax gap far larger than the cost of their dialysis and medical treatments.

Denying transplant coverage is very short sighted and will add to taxpayer costs.

By the way--- every one of you probably has a good spare kidney that you could donate to help get someone off of dialysis. The Federal Govt realizes this and will pick up 100% of the cost of living donors who give up a kidney to help get someone off of dialysis. Why are the people of Arizona so short signted... or is that selfish?

Those of us who've been paying attention noticed that the draft dodger George II already bankrupted the country, years ago. Stick a fork in it (or, in Stupid speak, "Mission Accomplished!").

When you said "draft dodger" I thought you were talking about the adulterer Clinton, Mr. NAFTA. How is that working out?

+1

And they sure are doing it faster than we can perceive it.

I'm just trying to figure out where some people draw the line as to what should be or shouldn't be government funded entitlements, and I'm finding some surprising (at least to me) results. What isn't too surprising is how many people want someone else to pay for their needs. There just isn't enough money to do that, even if all profits from every business on the planet were confiscated and redistributed.

Life isn't fair. Don't bankrupt our country (or the entire planet) trying to make it fair.

Ok, Bob so where do you draw the line. Do you cut off insulin for people over the age of 65? Do you stop blood pressure medicine for those over the age of 70? Perhaps no more hearing aids for those who no longer are employed?

And tell me this, does "right to life" only belong to the unborn, or do those who have already been born also have a right to continue to live?

But if you are talking about dollars and cents, I really want you to make an analysis of the cost of a transplant vs the cost of continued dialysis. Dialysis is not cheap. A few years on dialysis costs more than a transplant which is why Congress a few years ago said the Federal Government would pick up the tab for live donors of kidneys-- because it was cheaper to do that than to subsidize the high cost of dialysis. And that doesnt even touch the other issues about lost productivity, lost work, and lost tax revenue.

I was on dialysis three nights a week. My dialysis center was in Santa Monica -- and was known as the "celebrity dialysis center." Im not going to reveal names but I can tell you that some of the dialysis patients included not only well known people from the arts (dancers, actors, TV writers and producers) but also executives of big companies. Very big companies. And you know what? Im sure they were all covered by private insurance -- but who pays for private insurance? Other workers, consumers, shareholders do.

Paying for transplants will save everybody a lot of money in the long run. And the long run, in the case of dialysis vs transplant isnt very long at all. "payback" comes in about a year or so.

One of the patients at the dialysis center was a commodities broker -- former. He had to stop working. He used to earn a million dollars a year and paid a lot of taxes on that million dollars. He cant work anymore, and his dialysis treatments are subsidized because he is a veteran.

One of my sales people had a kidney transplant 20 years ago-- and is a productive, hard working person today.

I know a movie editor who could not work when on dialysis -- and he drew disability from social security as well as union benefits, and his dialysis was subisidized by the state of california. he got a transplant and is back at work, earning income and paying taxes and not draining federal or state money anymore.

but if you think paying for transplants is over the top, then I ask you what will be cut next because of budget worries? do you cut off open heart surgery, or cataract surgery, or even something as routine as ambulance service?

Can you look someone in the eye and say "I dont think you are worth my tax money to allow you to get well or to live?"

I would like to see the government offer a tax credit to everyone who offers a live kidney donation -- because I think the government will save money in the very short run if more people can be freed from costly dialysis and can return to the work force and pay taxes and stop draining social security and disability insurance funds.

Ok Money, where you do draw the line?????

Your speaking as one who has gotten an organ. How about the thousands that never get one due to many factors including a lack of organs.

I had a cousin that was on the list for a kidney. She found out a kidney was available and turned it down because someone else needed it more than she did. She likely thought she wasn't sick enough and had time to wait a bit. She ended up dying waiting for one and she had more than enough money to pay for it.

Do you have the government pay for an organ for a single mother of 4 kids. Perhaps this mother had been on welfare for a number of years. Perhaps you have an actor making millions of dollars and you only have 1 organ, who do you choose? Who dies and who lives?

Government can't afford to replace everyones organs who needs them. It's not the state or the federal governments job to do so. Their responsibility only extends out to the masses, not to a small group.

The line has to be drawn somwhere, so where is it drawn?????