Bin Laden Dead

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Originally posted by: pjstroh
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Originally posted by: jphelan
I am also glad he finally paid for his actions. However, the celebrations outside the White House and Times Square looked chillingly like the celebrations in the Muslim world after 9-11. It saddens me to see the people in the USA to be no better than our enemies.


I dont agree that its the same. But I do worry that those celebrations have different implications around the world. We see them and cheer. People in Suadi Arabia may see them and jeer. We should not hide our joy at this event...but we must also realize that those celebrations may be used to incite further recruitments and violence. I would not want to be a US Soldier patroling the streets of Kabul today.


Well said PJ. Pretty much what I think.

J
I was shocked to learn they found him in an urban area in Pakistan. I was sure, darned sure, he was in Iraq.

Wasn't he born in Iraq, and didn't he spend most of his life there, and wasn't that where he received his indoctrination and training? And wasn't he actively involved in the effort to liberate Iraq from the Russians?

Crazy, just crazy. Well, wait, there's OIL in Iraq, right? I'm not wrong about THAT, am I?
Something seems very strange about his burial at sea. You'd think they would want to keep the body as evidence that he is truly dead. What right do we have to bury him at sea? Seems to me that the body should have been turned over to the family for burial. If I'm not mistaken, he never claimed to be the one to orchestrate 911. He always seemed to take the credit for all the other acts of violence that were commited.
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Originally posted by: Roulette Man
Many Islamic clerics are up in arms about how Bin Laden was put to rest in the ocean.
Would you please give an example of this?

I haven't seen any Islamic clerics objecting to the US's disposal of this lanky piece of garbage.

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Originally posted by: BAGIANT
What right do we have to bury him at sea?
You must be kidding.

Took me a second to decypher mrmarcus' sarcasm above. Now this?
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Originally posted by: Chilcoot
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Originally posted by: Roulette Man
Many Islamic clerics are up in arms about how Bin Laden was put to rest in the ocean.
Would you please give an example of this?

I haven't seen any Islamic clerics objecting to the US's disposal of this lanky piece of garbage.


KFI radio, Los Angeles. I can only state what was reported. I did not read it.

[EDIT] Here is a story I found. It claims Islamic scholars and not clerics as reported on KFI.

Islamic scholars criticize bin Laden's sea burial
BY HAMZA HENDAWI, The Associated Press | Monday, May 02 2011 12:01 PM
Last Updated Monday, May 02 2011 12:02 PM

CAIRO -- Muslim clerics said Monday that Osama bin Laden's burial at sea was a violation of Islamic tradition that may further provoke militant calls for revenge attacks against American targets.

Although there appears to be some room for debate over the burial -- as with many issues within the faith -- a wide range of senior Islamic scholars interpreted it as a humiliating disregard for the standard Muslim practice of placing the body in a grave with the head pointed toward the holy city of Mecca.

Sea burials can be allowed, they said, but only in special cases where the death occurred aboard a ship.

Bin Laden's burial at sea "runs contrary to the principles of Islamic laws, religious values and humanitarian customs," said Sheik Ahmed al-Tayeb, the grand Imam of Cairo's al-Azhar mosque, Sunni Islam's highest seat of learning.

A radical cleric in Lebanon, Omar Bakri Mohammed, said, "The Americans want to humiliate Muslims through this burial, and I don't think this is in the interest of the U.S. administration."

A U.S. official said the burial decision was made after concluding that it would have been difficult to find a country willing to accept the remains. There was also speculation about worry that a grave site could have become a rallying point for militants.

The official spoke on condition of anonymity to discuss sensitive national security matters.

President Barack Obama said the remains had been handled in accordance with Islamic custom, which requires speedy burial, and the Pentagon later said the body was placed into the waters of the northern Arabian Sea after adhering to traditional Islamic procedures -- including washing the corpse -- aboard the aircraft carrier USS Carl Vinson.

But the Lebanese cleric Mohammed called it a "strategic mistake" that was bound to stoke rage.

In Washington, CIA director Leon Panetta warned that "terrorists almost certainly will attempt to avenge" the killing of the mastermind behind the Sept. 11 attacks.

"Bin Laden is dead," Panetta wrote in a memo to CIA staff. "Al-Qaida is not."

According to Islamic teachings, the highest honor to be bestowed on the dead is giving the deceased a swift burial, preferably before sunset. Those who die while traveling at sea can have their bodies committed to the bottom of the ocean if they are far off the coast, according to Islamic tradition.

"They can say they buried him at sea, but they cannot say they did it according to Islam," Mohammed al-Qubaisi, Dubai's grand mufti, said about bin Laden's burial. "If the family does not want him, it's really simple in Islam: You dig up a grave anywhere, even on a remote island, you say the prayers and that's it."

"Sea burials are permissible for Muslims in extraordinary circumstances," he added. "This is not one of them."

But Mohammed Qudah, a professor of Islamic law at the University of Jordan, said burying the Saudi-born bin Laden at sea was not forbidden if there was nobody to receive the body and provide a Muslim burial.

"The land and the sea belong to God, who is able to protect and raise the dead at the end of times for Judgment Day," he said. "It's neither true nor correct to claim that there was nobody in the Muslim world ready to receive bin Laden's body."

Clerics in Iraq, where an offshoot of al-Qaida is blamed for the death of thousands of people since 2003, also criticized the U.S. action. One said it only benefited fish.

"If a man dies on a ship that is a long distance from land, then the dead man should be buried at the sea," said Shiite cleric Ibrahim al-Jabari. "But if he dies on land, then he should be buried in the ground, not to be thrown into the sea. Otherwise, this would be only inviting fish to a banquet."

The Islamic tradition of a quick burial was the subject of intense debate in Iraq in 2003 when U.S. forces embalmed the bodies of Saddam Hussein's two sons after they were killed in a firefight. Their bodies were later shown to media.

"What was done by the Americans is forbidden by Islam and might provoke some Muslims," said another Islamic scholar from Iraq, Abdul-Sattar al-Janabi, who preaches at Baghdad's famous Abu Hanifa mosque. "It is not acceptable and it is almost a crime to throw the body of a Muslim man into the sea. The body of bin Laden should have been handed over to his family to look for a country or land to bury him."

Prominent Egyptian Islamic analyst and lawyer Montasser el-Zayat said bin Laden's sea burial was designed to prevent his grave from becoming a shrine. But an option was an unmarked grave.

"They don't want to see him become a symbol, but he is already a symbol in people's hearts."

Associated Press writers Barbara Surk in Dubai, United Arab Emirates; Jamal Halaby and Sameer N. Yacoub in Amman, Jordan, and Zeina Karam in Beirut contributed to this report.


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Originally posted by: Roulette Man
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Originally posted by: Chilcoot
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Originally posted by: Roulette Man
Many Islamic clerics are up in arms about how Bin Laden was put to rest in the ocean.
Would you please give an example of this?

I haven't seen any Islamic clerics objecting to the US's disposal of this lanky piece of garbage.


KFI radio, Los Angeles. I can only state what was reported. I did not read it.
It's true, but I would quibble over the word "many" and describe it as "some" Islamic clerics. An Associated Press story quoted two Middle East Muslim clerics, one radical and one more mainstream, who said the burial at sea was wrong. It also quoted clerics who disagreed with that assessment.

Since unnecessarily pissing off pre-radical Muslim young people can result in dead American servicemen and women, I'm sure a standard Koran approved burial was considered. But allowing a burial shrine to OBL would have been a bigger mistake, and they were right to dump him at sea.
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Originally posted by: arshaleign
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Originally posted by: Roulette Man
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Originally posted by: Chilcoot
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Originally posted by: Roulette Man
Many Islamic clerics are up in arms about how Bin Laden was put to rest in the ocean.
Would you please give an example of this?

I haven't seen any Islamic clerics objecting to the US's disposal of this lanky piece of garbage.


KFI radio, Los Angeles. I can only state what was reported. I did not read it.
It's true, but I would quibble over the word "many" and describe it as "some" Islamic clerics. An Associated Press story quoted two Middle East Muslim clerics, one radical and one more mainstream, who said the burial at sea was wrong. It also quoted clerics who disagreed with that assessment.

Since unnecessarily pissing off pre-radical Muslim young people can result in dead American servicemen and women, I'm sure a standard Koran approved burial was considered. But allowing a burial shrine to OBL would have been a bigger mistake, and they were right to dump him at sea.


When a major event happens, nothing is completely correct in news reporting. I personally don't see how there would be much time to interview very many people.

I agree with you they were right to dump him at sea. It is my understanding (from Brian Suits on KFI who was in the Iraq war and is well connected with special force members) that the body was dumped from an airplane and not the ship. I also understand they wanted the body to sink quickly so there was no chance of ocean predators snatching it.
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Originally posted by: mrmarcus12LVA
I was shocked to learn they found him in an urban area in Pakistan. I was sure, darned sure, he was in Iraq.

Wasn't he born in Iraq, and didn't he spend most of his life there, and wasn't that where he received his indoctrination and training? And wasn't he actively involved in the effort to liberate Iraq from the Russians?

Crazy, just crazy. Well, wait, there's OIL in Iraq, right? I'm not wrong about THAT, am I?


I think he was born in Saudi Arabia and has a very rich father who deals in road construction and other companies.
Why is anyone concerned about the 'rights' of this piece of shit or anyone who supports him ? So "some" muslims will be provoked...big friggin' deal. I'm pretty sure his followers / admirers were ALREADY provoked by his death.
This is just another "excuse" to justify what they will continue to do ... exert terror. NO sympathy here, sorry !

P.S. I was "provoked" on 9/11 and I'm not even an American. Didn't see any muslims standing up for my concerns / rights then.....why should I worry about theirs now.

He was a terrorist, a coward and an asshole of a man. Good riddance .... the world is better off without him !
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