Breaking news!! Singer drops his escrow demand!

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Originally posted by: chipchik
I play BJ & craps. I have never read a book on either and do quite well. I learned by doing.
I think most of the gambling books out there are scams. You can get the same info for free off the net.
Why does anyone "sell" their system as opposed to making money gambling the way they are selling?


Chipchik I also played the various games before I read the books. But before I read the books (this was pre Internet days) I didnt play as well.

Much of the content in the books is now on the web. Doyle Brunson's book is not on the web, nor is Grochowski's book, nor other books in my library on poker and craps and books about Vegas inside info and secrets of high rollers, casino management, gaming management, gaming security.

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Originally posted by: MoneyLA
really wonder if the opposition to presenting Singer's strategies is more about Singer the person who has angered others with his personal fights and uncalled-for attacks, than Singer the player?


Why don't you test Singer's strategies yourself and report back on your results?....do it for say...15,000 plays.

Now if you arent' even willing to give it a decent test yourself, what possible conclusions can we draw? It's good enough for your readers to try, but you won't touch it?

Bet you Five Bucks you end up a loser. Think of it as the AlanLeroy Challenge.
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Originally posted by: alanleroy
Bet you Five Bucks you end up a loser. Think of it as the AlanLeroy Challenge.

I'll volunteer to hold the money in escrow -- I'll PM you my mailing address.
Where to start?.....

I've been traveling for biz for the last two days so I've had very little internet time. Go away for a few days and you'll never know what you'll miss! Just got to my hotel in Nashville and have a bit of time before meeting colleagues for dinner so I'll try to respond to some of this as I feel responsible for starting it.

My "challenge" to Singer was done primarily in frustration after listening to his two cronnies carry on about "all of the addicted AP's". The purpose was to finally shut him/them up about their ill conceived strategy. I failed miserably at this as it was my intention to type "300 hours" instead of the 30 that I did. I'm not looking for excuses....my error and I can/will live with that. However, if this contest comes off, regardless of outcome, the results will neither validate or repudiate Singer's system as the number of events (15K hands) is too small a sample. The only reason that I'm still interested in doing this is that I believe 15K hands is still a large enough sample for him to lose money 2/3rd's of the time. So, I believe I'm playing at an advantage.

Not to change subjects but I do think that Money lost credibility here. I too was aware of his identity thanks to some careful sluthing by a poster on another website. You can try to spin this whatever way you want but Singer on your website equates to promotion of his strategy. It's your option to do what you want but you can't be half pregnant here.....you either support him and his methods or you don't.

I believe people have issues with Singer not because of his system but his lack of decency and social skills. Do you ever read posts here where vp players say slot players are stupid and wasting their money? Do you hear slot players saying that keno players are losers? No, they don't. The reason why is that for the most part people are respectful and appreciate that what one does with ones money is their perrogative. Singer unfortunately isn't like that. He's picked on Frankie Rizzo and Sue Casey....both of whom I consider friends and both of whom Singer doesn't have a clue about. When it comes to gambling, Frankie and I are about as different as they come. He's even joked about it on "trip reports" that he used to write. In the end, it doesn't mean we can't be friends.....we can agree to disagree and it's ok. Singer has to make things personal and that's why I believe he's so detested. Unfortunately Money, a leopard doesn't change his spots.

Getting back to the original issue, I understand that Singer has posted some revised conditions on Mendelson's site and I'll have a look at it. However, I can see from the posts here that it appears he's modified the overall terms so I'd like to have a look at these closely before I comment further on whether I'm in or out. THLF, I've been quiet not because I'm hiding but rather because I've been busy. I will respond to this in the next day or two....just as quickly as time allows. I didn't "bite off more than I can chew" but on the other hand, I'm not stupid and won't allow myself to get flim flammed. You obviously didn't read the thread close enough....it's 15K hands....and in fact it DOES matter....the more, the better simply because the potential short term fluctuations diminish over a larger number of hands. The results start falling in to line with the expected return. The more he plays, the more he loses.

I already outlined my terms which haven't waivered one bit since the beginning. After wasting time talking about paying escrow agents $5K to hold funds and $300K escrow amounts, I grew weary of this and basically outlined my position in bullet form. If he wants to accept that, it's game on. If he doesn't, I'm not interested in negotiating changes that detract from my advantage. I'll clarify all of this once I have some time but I can assure you that I'm not going anywhere...not backing down...not hiding....but at the same time, I'm not a sucker and if his modifications diminish my advantage, I'm out. If this were to happen, I don't care what he thinks or says about me....people can read for themselves and draw their own conclusions. Here's a guy who claims he's won just shy of $1M over 10 years and wins 80-85% of his sessions. He has the opportunity to put a cherry on the cake by taking me for $30K above what he wins from the casino. If that's not good enough, who's BS'ing who?

I never understood AM's interest in wanting to video this as it would prove nothing. I can say this now even if I win....it does nothing to discredit Singer's system. If he wants to video it, have fun. It nonetheless proves nothing. I know I wouldn't watch it.

I'm sorry that this has grown a bit out of control. I agree with Frankie's assessment that giving Singer attention is exactly what he craves and is exactly what I didn't want to do. I feel compelled to post here so that people aren't left misinformed as to where this stands but at the same time, don't want to further complicate and draw even more attention to this. Not sure what to do on this....

Dan


*** Rob Singer For President ***
Ive already said I dont follow Singer's total strategy. Frankly, when I play, I follow what Ive learned from Dancer and Grochowski.

So why publish info about it? Many reasons including that some ideas are worthwhile. Some of his special plays, while they "violate the math" actually make sense. And my favorite is the special play of holding 3-aces and dropping the kicker in TDB. His hit and run strategy makes sense. His strategy to increase the denomination of play makes sense if you can afford it -- but I can't unless I started at a low denomination. Singer advocates play on full pay machines-- are you arguing with that?

Look, many of us on this message board do not follow the math of holding three aces with a kicker on TDB. This was discussed some time ago.

You have to realize that his "special plays" are indeed rare. Honestly-- HOW MANY TIMES HAVE YOU BEEN DEALT AAA WITH A KICKER PLAYING TDB?? Come on, be honest.

And Singer's strategy about increasing denomination is NOT a Martingale. Because he is not trying to double his money as a Martingale does. He wants to hit a bigger hand at a higher denomination.

The more I think about it, the more I am convinced his critics have no idea what Singer's strategy is about. Im telling you -- its not much different from how MOST of us play. Arc doesnt play Singer's way-- and good for Arc. I don't play Singer's way -- but I certainly wish I followed his idea about win goals and leaving.

Tell me, do Dancer and Grochowski and Scott talk about win goals and leaving?
Are you back on planet earth yet, Money? You got involved with dickhead Singer! Your credibility is now in the gutter, just as you deserve. You've seen the litany of changes start to tumble down the chute. Cut your losses. Or make yourself look even more foolish.
Dan, I agree with a lot that you said above:

"I believe people have issues with Singer not because of his system but his lack of decency and social skills." It is his downfall.

"if this contest comes off, regardless of outcome, the results will neither validate or repudiate Singer's system as the number of events (15K hands) is too small a sample." Again I agree and so will everyone else. But even Singer says he is not a long term player. Long term math is the long term math and there is no disputing it.

It all comes down to this and this is an extreme example but illustrates the point: if you are at a video poker machine for ONE hand and only ONE hand what would you do if dealt:

10h Jh Qh Kh Ad

You are playing only ONE hand. Do you hold the straight or go for the royal? At the end of this hand, you must cash out and go home. What do you do?

I know you can't get the RF with the diamond. Since I wouldn't dream of playing VP, so what? The contamination issue should be far more important to you than a relatively trivial, hypothetical gambling result.
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Originally posted by: loydthelover
Wow we have 17 posts here and still no reply from Bags saying I just got off the phone with Rob and he said ........................


Well I actually just got home and haven't had a chance to review this whole thread. I'm also in a poker tournament which should go on for two hours (hopefully), and I'll read it while I'm playing and comment if I need to.

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