Vegas Free-for-All - Brilliant Republican Healthcare Solution: Don’t Take Children With Broken Bones To The ER

Brilliant Republican Healthcare Solution: Don’t Take Children With Broken Bones To The ER

pjstroh

Dec 27, 2016
12:53am

Quote

Originally posted by: alanleroy
I'm just the messenger. How does PJ explain the surge in Emergency Room visits since Obamacare took effect? Maybe I need to repeat that...."Three-quarters of emergency physicians say they've seen ER patient visits surge since Obamacare took effect — just the opposite of what many Americans expected would happen". Sure doesn't seem to be working....does it?

The article I linked implied that even though all these people are now insured they still don't have family doctors. Even though they are now insured, their deductibles and max out of pocket means their health care still isn't affordable. It's unfortunate, but the ACA didn't really address healthcare costs in any significant way. It didn't increase the number of doctors. It didn't decrease emergency room visits. It appears to have become a massive bureaucratic boondoggle. Shocking, huh?

I've never argued Obamacare was perfect - I simply say its better than the trainwreck that came before it. If Republicans have a plan that covers the same (or more people)...with the same consumer protections and at a cheaper cost I will be first in line to bless it. But for 8 years the only thing I've heard from Republicans is the same crap I hear from you - Obamacare's shortfalls. That's not an alternative - that's just crying. I would challenge AlanLeroy to make the argument that our healthcare system in 2007 was better than the one we have today. I'd love to debate that with you.

The best thing about this election is it will finally force Republicans from playing AlanLeroy's game of being an Obamacare critic and actually put a solution of their own on the table. We can compare apples to apples then. And I am sincere when I say that I hope Republicans do it better. Obamacare has lots of room for improvement.

regarding ER visits - 20 million more people have health insurance thanks to Obamacare- so the pool of people who can seek help in the ER has gone up by that amount whereas before they may have suffered without treatment out of fear of the medical costs. That's not a shocking or scary statistic to me. I'm not arrogant or ignorant enough to put a percentage on the number of those visits that were unnecessary or could have gone to a scheduled appointment with a regular doctor. Do you have the breakdown of that data or is it ok just to make ignorant assumptions?

LurkerPoster

Dec 27, 2016
12:56am

Block User

Quote

Originally posted by: billryan
At least boils has come to the realization that talking in the third person made him sound even stupider. Progress.
Now if we can help him address the subject matter, we just might end up with a useful participant.
Keep hope alive

The past has shown us this (unfortunately) is a clear case of wishful thinking.

pjstroh

Dec 27, 2016
1:14am

Block User

Quote

Originally posted by: IndyBoilerman
My parents taught me to never waste money, no matter who's paying the bill. I've taught the same to my children. It would be a happy day if I could just instill such an ethic onto Liberals. When other's are paying the tab, you guys order the most expensive thing on the menu. My mother taught that this was in bad taste.

Quote
Originally posted by: pjstroh
Since Cadillac Plans by definition cost over 10k a year one would have to go to the ER several times "for a scratch" before one exceeds the amount of money taken out vs put in.

If the idea of spending someone else's money is so objectionable to you, Boilerman, then you should opt out of Health Insurance all together and just pay your own bills 100% out of pocket. Insurance of any kind is designed to spend other peoples' money for a subset of participants. If you are going to complain when people utilize that benefit then you should remove yourself from the same pool they are in. Otherwise you subject yourself to the same awful dynamic of "spending other peoples' money."

So when are you dropping out of the liberal ponzei scheme of insurance?....all insurance: health, home, auto.
Why would you pay to reserve the right to spend someone else's money if you are so ideologically opposed to that concept?

alanleroy

Dec 27, 2016
1:19am

Block User

Quote

Originally posted by: pjstroh

The best thing about this election is it will finally force Republicans from playing AlanLeroy's game of being an Obamacare critic and actually put a solution of their own on the table. We can compare apples to apples then. And I am sincere when I say that I hope Republicans do it better. Obamacare has lots of room for improvement.

I've made many suggestions on ways that the ACA could be improved. From building DNR's into the pricing to ordering Prescription Drugs from approved international sources to Outsourcing Major surgeries. Perhaps you have me confused with a partisan.. ...PJ's problem is on one side of his mouth he claims insuring all these people via the ACA leads to reduced Emergency Room abuse and when confronted with the facts he claims it increases Emergency Room use....but that's good.

agnes

Dec 27, 2016
1:21am

Block User

Mr. Boiler, i am just not sure that you understand the difference in Urgent Care as compared to an Emergency Room. Maybe you do, and I just have missed it.

That has been my only point thru this entire thread: People educating themselves to know the differences among family care, Urgent Care, and Emergency Room.

My daddy always told me, "Never wrestle with pigs. You both get dirty and the pig likes it.”

So I'm off to take a shower.

You all have fun! But I don't think our country's healthcare problems are going to solved on a Gambling a forum.

pjstroh

Dec 27, 2016
1:29am

Block User

Quote

Originally posted by: alanleroy

Quote
Originally posted by: pjstroh

The best thing about this election is it will finally force Republicans from playing AlanLeroy's game of being an Obamacare critic and actually put a solution of their own on the table. We can compare apples to apples then. And I am sincere when I say that I hope Republicans do it better. Obamacare has lots of room for improvement.

I've never made that claim. Uninsured Emergency Room use has gone down which means hospitals get paid and don't have to raise their prices for everyone else as a result. That doesn't make ER costs any cheaper - it just makes them paid for.

I'm not at all shocked that someone with insurance is more likely to seek medical attention than someone who doesn't have insurance. Is that a shocking dynamic for you, Alan?

Again - I'll ask you for your data on Emergency Room abuse. You provided ER visits without showing me which ones are frivolous. Do you have that data or did you make it up?

IndyBoilerman

Dec 27, 2016
1:39am

Block User

Boiler has no plans to drop any insurance plans as they have their place and value. He does point out that government getting in the middle of our insurance, and our government subsidizing perfectly able bodied people................is another expensive mistake.

Quote

Originally posted by: pjstroh

Quote
Originally posted by: IndyBoilerman
My parents taught me to never waste money, no matter who's paying the bill. I've taught the same to my children. It would be a happy day if I could just instill such an ethic onto Liberals. When other's are paying the tab, you guys order the most expensive thing on the menu. My mother taught that this was in bad taste.

Quote
Originally posted by: pjstroh
Since Cadillac Plans by definition cost over 10k a year one would have to go to the ER several times "for a scratch" before one exceeds the amount of money taken out vs put in.

If the idea of spending someone else's money is so objectionable to you, Boilerman, then you should opt out of Health Insurance all together and just pay your own bills 100% out of pocket. Insurance of any kind is designed to spend other peoples' money for a subset of participants. If you are going to complain when people utilize that benefit then you should remove yourself from the same pool they are in. Otherwise you subject yourself to the same awful dynamic of "spending other peoples' money."

billryan

Dec 27, 2016
2:13am

Block User

US population has grown about seven percent in the last eight years, so ER visits should match that. We also have an aging population that may or may not effect that.
In my case, my Mom was in the ER three times in her last two years, after some eighty years of not being there.

IndyBoilerman

Dec 27, 2016
2:52am

Block User

Billy, were you taught that "New Math"? US News seems to believe that our population increased 0.7%. Please explain your number of 7%.

Quote

Originally posted by: billryan
US population has grown about seven percent in the last eight years, so ER visits should match that. We also have an aging population that may or may not effect that.
In my case, my Mom was in the ER three times in her last two years, after some eighty years of not being there.

malibber2

Dec 27, 2016
4:07am

Block User

Quote

Originally posted by: alanleroy

Quote
Originally posted by: pjstroh
Quote
Originally posted by: alanleroy
Quote
Originally posted by: pjstroh
People without insurance don't have a doctor...doctors dont like to accept new patients who don't have insurance - so they don't accept them. Its that simple. Cool, huh? that's why uninsured people go to the ER for stuff a regular doctor can do at a far cheaper price.

One of the great promises of Obamacare was that with all the newly insured people, the program would pay for itself because of less abuse of Emergency Care. Unfortunately that has simply not been the case.

Contrary to goals, Emergency Room visits increase under Obacare.

"Three-quarters of emergency physicians say they've seen ER patient visits surge since Obamacare took effect — just the opposite of what many Americans expected would happen"

People thought getting low cost, government subsided health insurance would get them back into the mainstream of American healthcare...with their own Doctors and everything. Then they found out that there weren't enough primary doctors to go around. Then they found out that their deductibles and out of pocket costs meant they were still paying for their own health care that they couldn't afford. So they just continued to use the Emergency Care anyway....because they didn't have a family doctor and still couldn't afford their medical care...and the Emergency rooms have to treat them. Cool, huh?

so if Paul Ryan dispels the Medicaid expansion from Obamacare as he proposes and sends 10 million people back to the streets,....you are saying that won't impact ER visits? And where would you suggest those people go since they don't have a doctor or insurance?

A significant part of our population lives at an income level that makes any healthcare costs unaffordable. The question needs to be asked what level of care should they receive. Because even a $100 bill is going to be beyond their means to pay

I'm just the messenger. How does PJ explain the surge in Emergency Room visits since Obamacare took effect? Maybe I need to repeat that...."Three-quarters of emergency physicians say they've seen ER patient visits surge since Obamacare took effect — just the opposite of what many Americans expected would happen". Sure doesn't seem to be working....does it?

The article I linked implied that even though all these people are now insured they still don't have family doctors. Even though they are now insured, their deductibles and max out of pocket means their health care still isn't affordable. It's unfortunate, but the ACA didn't really address healthcare costs in any significant way. It didn't increase the number of doctors. It didn't decrease emergency room visits. It appears to have become a massive bureaucratic boondoggle. Shocking, huh?

The point missed by a lot of you is that emergency room utilization is up because deductibles and co-pays are up. If you go to the emergency room, they have to treat you right away. You don’t have to pay your deductible or co-pay upfront. (the hospital will try and collect it later) However, If you call in and make an appointment with a doctor during office hours to begin treatment of some condition you will have to pay your deductible and co-pay upfront before receiving any treatment.

In other words, If the doctor determines your treatment is going to cost 4k and you have a 6k deductible, he is going to want 4k upfront before you get treatment. Even though the same treatment may be 8k in the ER you don’t have to come up with any of it upfront. The insurance companies have created this problem because of their shitty products. If they want people going to doctor’s offices first, wave the co-pays and the deductibles at the doctor’s office.

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