Can the machines be switched to "don't pay" ?

About 12 years (? maybe more) ago, a "new" slot machine was being "introduced" in Biloxi at the MGM Grand.

I believe it was "Cleopatra", and she was there to make a personal appearance to launch the new game.

Every hour or two, she would "appear", make a proclamation, and all the machines were opened and a switch inside flipped. (Probably "tournament" mode) And for exactly 5 minutes, those lucky enough to be on a machine were nicely rewarded.

Unfortunately for me, I arrived and "found" this promotion too late. Only two more periods scheduled, and I could not get "near" one to play.

The players were most likely all "advantage" players, because as I watched, it was "slow play one unit per pull maybe twice per minute" city, waiting until the promo, when it became " frantic button pushing" city.

THAT was the beginning of my education into advantageous slot play. A poker player took me under his wing, and taught me the basics and much more. We went to several casino's, he showed me every machine in each, explained what to look for, etc. He was headed "home" and had no plans of returning to Biloxi.

Years later, I now know how very profitable those hours of education were. (I knew it at the time when we hit one "play" for $600.00. ) The internet, subsequent casino visits and many conversations with slot personnel, allowed me to expand my knowledge in this area.

Like me, he preferred poker, learned/ knew machines, and during his poker game "breaks", would walk the slot floor looking for banking games to play. He would spend 30 minutes away from the poker game every 90 minutes or so.

What a promo that "Cleopatra" thing was. Doubt it worked out well for the casino, since I now know that the bank of machines was occupied by advantage players.

And if I knew than what I know now, I would have arrived days earlier to participate also. :::shrug:::

OH, yeah, the machine was in some special mode. Not certain it was actually "tournament mode" as we now know it, since TITO's were issued and cash accepted.

This was "way back", just a month or two after the MGM Grand converted it's machines to TITO. How unpopular those TITO's were at the time. :::shrug:::

That was back in the days when the casino was moored on a barge, and Lyle Berman owned them. The poker rooms always served free hot dogs, (with or without chili) , Krispy Kreme, fresh fruit, had soda and coffee/expresso/cappuchino machines, and much more in the poker room, free to all players. Also all poker players got buffet/meal comps for the asking (one per shift "if played 4 hours or so)

Too bad they got destroyed by Katrina or Wilma. Whichever. They were truly poker player friendly, due to Lyle Berman being a poker player.

Those days are gone. Forever.










Arc... Do you think the SBA would give you a loan as a professional VP player if you told them you lose ten out of fourteen sessions? Lol.
Quote

Originally posted by: arcimedes
Quote

Originally posted by: tomdoug
Ok, so maybe using the word "calculated" was wrong. I'll try again. Most of the machines an "advantage player" chooses to play on, with "perfect play", with comps included, have a payback of over 100%, over the "lifetime of the machine"
Are we correct so far? Yes or no Arch.


Yes, but it is irrelevant. The "lifetime of the machine" has no meaning. It adds nothing to the discussion. The correct choice of words is to replace "the lifetime of a machine" with "over time". A player can just as easily get ahead of the EV immediately and stay ahead forever (or lose later) as they are to get behind and catch up later. The intent of your misstatement is to imply that people lose on positive plays if they don't play millions of hands. That is NONSENSE.

The reason I've won 12 of the last 13 years (and 9 in a row) is because you don't have worry about the "lifetime of a machine". In my case I've played hundreds of machines and never played more than a couple hundred thousand hands on any one of them in any given year I won.

You also fail to understand that "over 100%" is not in itself the big issue if a person really wants to win. The key is the amount of edge a player has. If they are playing at 100.06% they will very likely lose no matter how much they play. If they have a 1-2% edge then they are huge favorites to win.
Yes you can win short term, thats the only way to log a score. My opinion is that you cannot win short term consistantly.
9 years running, maybe you should move to Vegas.
Quote

Originally posted by: MoneyLA
Arc... Do you think the SBA would give you a loan as a professional VP player if you told them you lose ten out of fourteen sessions? Lol.


It's an interesting concept. I wonder if any poker players have taken this approach. It's not that different in live poker. You still lose most of the time, the wins though are even bigger.


Quote

Originally posted by: tomdoug
Yes you can win short term, thats the only way to log a score. My opinion is that you cannot win short term consistantly.
9 years running, maybe you should move to Vegas.


Maybe you should have listened in your high school math class.

Your opinion has nothing to do with reality. The math is the math. For you to deny basic mathematics is hilarious. You might as well say it's impossible for a plane to fly. Both are based on mathematics.

I lived in Vegas for 5 years.


Well, Arc, I do know professional poker players who do sell "shares" in themselves to get money to enter tournaments. Sometimes big tournaments and sometimes small tourneys or even satellites. But I dont think they sell shares of themselves -- or get loans for tourney entries -- if they are "winners."

I play at the Bike in LA often and it breaks my heart to see two of the biggest names in poker borrowing money to buy into satellites and tourneys, and to find out that they are really flat broke.
Quote

Originally posted by: arcimedes
Quote

Originally posted by: tomdoug
Yes you can win short term, thats the only way to log a score. My opinion is that you cannot win short term consistantly.
9 years running, maybe you should move to Vegas.


Maybe you should have listened in your high school math class.

Your opinion has nothing to do with reality. The math is the math. For you to deny basic mathematics is hilarious. You might as well say it's impossible for a plane to fly. Both are based on mathematics.

I lived in Vegas for 5 years.


Yeah, and you went broke and moved to a more player friendly locale-the Minnesota Indian casinos.
Quote

Originally posted by: MoneyLA
Well, Arc, I do know professional poker players who do sell "shares" in themselves to get money to enter tournaments. Sometimes big tournaments and sometimes small tourneys or even satellites. But I dont think they sell shares of themselves -- or get loans for tourney entries -- if they are "winners."

I play at the Bike in LA often and it breaks my heart to see two of the biggest names in poker borrowing money to buy into satellites and tourneys, and to find out that they are really flat broke.



I've seen a whole of "pro's" busted by the casino. I've yet to see a caino busted by the "pro's"
Quote

Originally posted by: melbedewy
Quote

Originally posted by: MoneyLA
Well, Arc, I do know professional poker players who do sell "shares" in themselves to get money to enter tournaments. Sometimes big tournaments and sometimes small tourneys or even satellites. But I dont think they sell shares of themselves -- or get loans for tourney entries -- if they are "winners."

I play at the Bike in LA often and it breaks my heart to see two of the biggest names in poker borrowing money to buy into satellites and tourneys, and to find out that they are really flat broke.



I've seen a whole of "pro's" busted by the casino. I've yet to see a caino busted by the "pro's"



I HAVE!

During the south Florida "Casino Boat Wars", as I fondly refer to them, there were promotions that were just unbelievable on the casino boats.

The casino boats "cruise to nowhere" usually lasted for 3-4 hours of gaming time, plus the travel time to get to the 12 mile limit. So most boats were scheduled for 6 hour cruises.

They battled fiercely for players at one point, and promotions got really "interesting". The first and most lucrative was that a player would receive 4 x $25 match play when they purchased $1,000.00 in chips. You "had" to be an "A" player, but even that was not enforced.

Than, along came a company called IGT which, for it's members, would get you $250.00 in Non-Negotiable chips for the prices of $187.50. Usually valid once per week. Than, there were coupons "around", good for $5.00 in slot tokens with purchase of $10 or $20. Also, the boats had mailing lists, and it was not uncommon to receive match plays, free aces, etc.

Many of those match plays or free aces mailers were printed by computer on standard paper.

As a result, "counterfeits" found there way onto the boats, but were dealt with efficiently enough by changing procedures, etc.

Double dipping promotions was allowed! So IGT + $1,000 cash would provide an additional $100 match play, and $67.50 savings on NNS chips.

One boat, "new" to the marketplace, decided to allow unlimited IGT rebuys during cruises. Their first sailing was a Thursday nigh. Twice Friday, Sat, etc.

By Friday night, 3 cruises into their "launch", they were broke. "We" worked them over so hard, they had difficulty cashing people out, and had to empty drop boxes, and pay off some in coins!

Belly up after three cruises.

So, poor decisions by a casino can lead to their going broke also.

I know I was very busy "working" the casino boats, and "sailed" as many as 15 times in one week. I knew it was not going to last long, but for that 9-12 months, a "smart" player could practically guarantee a profit of over $110.00 per cruise, plus meals, snacks, drinks, even hotel room nearby.

Most of the boats also had poker rooms, and I would get into a game after 20-30 minutes of running my promotions through. Very lucrative time in Southeast Florida, long before the Seminoles began "real" casino's and table games.

Anyway, a poorly thought out promotion did lead to the bankruptcy of one casino boat.

There was one promotion that was even better!

A mailer for a month was sent out, with coupons. First trip got $25. Second $50, the 8th got $250. Free chips. No obligations, etc. Real negotiable chips. "Just for the ride". Oh, and that could also be used while also getting the "VIP" match play for a buy in, and the IGT non-negotiable chips.

Whew. The good old days of the South Florida Casino Boat Wars.

It was hard work sailing that many times. After the first few weeks, I slowed down to only 12 cruises or so each week. And gained some weight from all the free meals and buffets.

I miss those times.














Quote

Originally posted by: melbedewy

Yeah, and you went broke and moved to a more player friendly locale-the Minnesota Indian casinos.


I see melbedewy has been drinking again. Evidently when he drinks that heavily it turns the definition of the word profit into going broke. I'm still waiting for him to take up my bet. What about it, dude? You ready to back up your claims with money yet? Or, are you going to just keep lying? (as if I didn't already know)

BTW, isn't it time for you to make another one of those blurry, drunken videos? We all need another good laugh.
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