Vegas Free-for-All - Careful what ya wish for($15hr.)

Careful what ya wish for($15hr.)

alanleroyII

Nov 29, 2016
11:55pm

Quote

Originally posted by: pjstroh
McDonalds already staffs their restaurants with 1/3 of the crew they did in 1980 because of automation. This has resulted in massive growth in profit margins for the franchises - and yet they will tell you they cant afford to pay more than minimum wage despite the reduced staff. Workers are calling it out for what it is- Greed.

There is an existential question about what the minimum quality of life someone should afford if they give an employer 40 hours of labor each week. Having access to shelter, food, and medicine is not too much to ask for - unless you're a greedy prick. And there are lots of those around.

Here's another 'existential' question for you....Why is my access to shelter, food and medicine my employer's responsibility?

pjstroh

Nov 30, 2016
12:55am

Block User

Quote

Originally posted by: alanleroyII

Quote
Originally posted by: pjstroh
McDonalds already staffs their restaurants with 1/3 of the crew they did in 1980 because of automation. This has resulted in massive growth in profit margins for the franchises - and yet they will tell you they cant afford to pay more than minimum wage despite the reduced staff. Workers are calling it out for what it is- Greed.

There is an existential question about what the minimum quality of life someone should afford if they give an employer 40 hours of labor each week. Having access to shelter, food, and medicine is not too much to ask for - unless you're a greedy prick. And there are lots of those around.

Here's another 'existential' question for you....Why is my access to shelter, food and medicine my employer's responsibility?

I'll explain it to you like you're a 6 year old.
- Stuff costs money
- Employees' source of money comes from their employer
- "Shelter, food, and medicine" fall under the category of non-discretionary "stuff" required to survive
- Employers who don't pay their employees enough to survive are assholes.

hoops2

Nov 30, 2016
4:26am

Block User

"McDonalds already staffs their restaurants with 1/3 of the crew they did in 1980 because of automation"

I would like to see that proof

jatki

Nov 30, 2016
5:04am

Block User

Quote

Originally posted by: alanleroyII

Ok. It's a fake. But there is absolutely no reason that all current manual labor jobs at McDonalds Restaurants can't be automated. It's just not that hard to make fast food. In 20 years everything from picking fruit to cleaning toilets won't need humans. Then what do we do with all the unskilled workers 'doing the work Americans refuse to do'? There isn't any work that American machines refuse to do.

There'll always be somewhere that needs humans.

or...

rayxtwo

Nov 30, 2016
5:17am

Block User

Automation has no effect on the way a company does business. Just walk into a casino and enjoy 1,000 blackjack, craps and roulette tables stretching out as far as the eye can see.

Wait..... WHAT?????? NO WAY.....REALLY???? OK, never mind.

alanleroyII

Nov 30, 2016
6:13am

Block User

Quote

Originally posted by: pjstroh

Quote
Originally posted by: alanleroyII
Quote
Originally posted by: pjstroh
McDonalds already staffs their restaurants with 1/3 of the crew they did in 1980 because of automation. This has resulted in massive growth in profit margins for the franchises - and yet they will tell you they cant afford to pay more than minimum wage despite the reduced staff. Workers are calling it out for what it is- Greed.

There is an existential question about what the minimum quality of life someone should afford if they give an employer 40 hours of labor each week. Having access to shelter, food, and medicine is not too much to ask for - unless you're a greedy prick. And there are lots of those around.
Here's another 'existential' question for you....Why is my access to shelter, food and medicine my employer's responsibility?

Ah...I see. Employers should base their salaries on what the employee needs. Of course some employees need more than others. Some employees have lots of children. Obviously they should be paid more....because they need more. Others need more medical attention. Some people live in more expensive cities. Their employer must pay them more too.

I guess it works the other way too. Some employees are young people living at home with their parents. We can pay them less because they need less. Others employees are old and have lots of money already. They don't need anything. They should be paid nothing.

Ah yes. The wonderful world of communism. From each according to his ability to each according to his need. Here's a concept. Instead of distorting the labor markets and forcing employers to pay what the employees 'need', how about letting employers pay what the job is worth on the open market?

If that's not enough for the employee to survive then have taxpayers subsidize the poor people who can't earn enough to support themselves. At least that way employers don't just eliminate entry level jobs and employees are contributing to society rather than sitting at home because there are no jobs they can fill that employers will pay a 'living wage' for.

pjstroh

Nov 30, 2016
9:27am

Block User

Quote

Originally posted by: alanleroyII
Ah yes. The wonderful world of communism. From each according to his ability to each according to his need. Here's a concept. Instead of distorting the labor markets and forcing employers to pay what the employees 'need', how about letting employers pay what the job is worth on the open market?

you mean like they do in third world countoires and in the US before communist minimum wage laws? Yes. What could possibly go wrong with the open-market purism? Our own history has the answer.

AlanLeroy's Utopian open-market society....

alanleroyII

Nov 30, 2016
10:14am

Block User

Quote

Originally posted by: pjstroh

Quote
Originally posted by: alanleroyII
Ah yes. The wonderful world of communism. From each according to his ability to each according to his need. Here's a concept. Instead of distorting the labor markets and forcing employers to pay what the employees 'need', how about letting employers pay what the job is worth on the open market?

you mean like they do in third world countoires and in the US before communist minimum wage laws? Yes. What could possibly go wrong with the open-market purism? Our own history has the answer.

I see. So PJ's solution to poverty in third world countries is to simply raise the minimum wage until the people are all prosperous. Brilliant. I wonder why they haven't figured that out yet.

I also see how PJ conveniently left out the second part of my argument.... that people who cannot produce their own 'living wage' in the market would still work and earn a wage but would be able to access shelter, food and medical treatment via subsidies. We sort of do that now...except for the 'work' part....because some poor people just aren't going to be hired at minimum wage.

This provides entry level jobs to people who would otherwise be priced out of the job market and starts them moving up on the ladder of opportunity....and they don't starve, freeze or die from lack of medical treatment in the meantime. No hooverville.

pjstroh

Nov 30, 2016
11:02am

Block User

Your definition of "prosperous" is being able to eat, receive medical care, and have a bed to sleep in? Damn. Where the hell did you grow up?

Without the communist laws of the New Deal you would likely have dropped out of school in 5th grade to work in a health-hazard factory for 80 hours a week for peanuts. But you'd sleep well at night knowing the open market determined your income.

billryan

Nov 30, 2016
11:37am

Block User

Quote

Originally posted by: hoops2
As usual pj deals with fantasy.

The facts

As of 2013, the U.S. restaurant franchise with the highest sales is Chick-fil-A. Its restaurants average gross revenues of $3.1 million per year. McDonald's is second with $2.6 million in annual single-store sales..
Profit margins are typically low for restaurants in general and especially for restaurants owned by individual franchisees. The average profit margin for the restaurant industry overall is 2.4 percent, as of 2013. The margin is down from 3.2 percent in 2009. The average franchised restaurant location makes a profit of less than $50,000 per year as of 2013

So a doubling of the minimum wage will force most of these places into the red.

What a load of utter bullshit.. This seems to be from the same article hoops selectively quoted....
.... But to open a single restaurant, the company requires that potential franchisees have liquid assets of at least $750,000.

Startup costs, which include construction and equipment expenses, average between $955,708 and $2.3 million, according to McDonald's. The total is determined by the geography and size of the restaurant, as well as by the selection of kitchen equipment, signage, style of decor, and landscaping, the company says.

Franchisees must pay 40% of the startup costs with cash and other non-borrowed resources, while the rest can be financed.

In addition to those costs, McDonald's charges a $45,000 franchisee fee and an ongoing monthly service fee equal to 4% of gross sales. Franchisees must also pay rent to the company, which is a percentage of monthly sales.

So hoops is trying to say a McDonalds owner lays out between a half a million and a million in cash, and finances an equal amount in order to clear $50,000 a year.

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