Vegas Free-for-All - Changing Slot Play Percentages

bigdawg

Mar 17, 2012
11:57pm

For all you experts out there. Can casinos change the rate of play on all of the slot machines on their floor easily? The reason I ask this is one of my local casinos offers bonus plays for special events, such as St. Patrick's weekend. This is in addition to the normal free slot play. Every time I go to these events the casino is packed. I get slaughtered, rarely even getting any kind of decent return. This past visit I went through $170 in FSP in a matter of a couple of hours while averaging about ninety cents a spin. I played some VP as well but couldn't catch a cold on there as well. I also didn't see much celebrating or a single hand pay the whole time I was there.

arshaleign

Mar 18, 2012
12:44am

Block User

The percentages on slots can be changed very easily, but I question why they would want to. The slot director's goal is to have machines that give you just enough incremental small jackpots, and occasional larger ones, to keep you playing longer, and to keep you coming back. That's how they maximize profits, not by making machines so tight that everyone walks away in the first hour.

I think that would be the casino's goal, regardless of whether the casino is packed or whether you're there by yourself. As to why you have had particularly bad luck during special promos, I have a theory: your sample size is too small.

arcimedes

Mar 18, 2012
12:49am

Block User

Yes, the idea that casinos set returns way down is not logicial. There have been numerous studies and the slots are set based on those studies.

As for VP. Even if they changed the return they could only do that by changing the paytables. So, there's nothing hidden. You just have to look at the paytables and not play the poor ones.

melbedewy

Mar 18, 2012
1:56am

Block User

They could do it but why bother?
Slots under a dollar are set between 87-92 percent which is why they are called one arm bandits.

jatki

Mar 18, 2012
5:58pm

Block User

When we were in vegas back in sept., it sure as hell seemed like everything was set in "don't pay squat" mode. It was really discouraging for us as every place we seemed to play wouldn't pay jack. Its not the losing that bothers me but geez, gimme some play time or at least long enough til CW gets back with my beer. Put in a 20, 5 minutes, another20, 5 minutes. Switch couple machines over, same. Lather rinse repeat. There just went a hundred bucks in 10-15 minutes. WTF fun is that? NONE. Downtown and strip were the same.

One OK spot was a vp bar(ultra lounge?) in PH and it was the place we first started playing VP ever and we got to play for quite a while each time without losing a ton, so that was fun at least.

J

melbedewy

Mar 19, 2012
12:00am

Block User

Quote

Originally posted by: jatki99
When we were in vegas back in sept., it sure as hell seemed like everything was set in "don't pay squat" mode. It was really discouraging for us as every place we seemed to play wouldn't pay jack. Its not the losing that bothers me but geez, gimme some play time or at least long enough til CW gets back with my beer. Put in a 20, 5 minutes, another20, 5 minutes. Switch couple machines over, same. Lather rinse repeat. There just went a hundred bucks in 10-15 minutes. WTF fun is that? NONE. Downtown and strip were the same.

One OK spot was a vp bar(ultra lounge?) in PH and it was the place we first started playing VP ever and we got to play for quite a while each time without losing a ton, so that was fun at least.

J

Again if you are talking about regular slots like the penny or nickel slots they have ALWAYS been lousy-around 90% payback give or take a couple of percent. There is no need to further "tighten" them. They are already tight enough to bust out players.
My advice is to learn blackjack or VP. You may be surprised how much more play you get.

CowboyKell

Mar 19, 2012
4:40am

Block User

Quote

Originally posted by: arshaleign
The percentages on slots can be changed very easily, .

Another one of those un-truths that everyone seems to believe???
First the qualification of my answer. One of the wifes clients is one of the largest slot manufacturers. I socialize semi regularly with the CEO as well as the others in the company from the legal team as well as those in development. They tell me that the pay back rate is set by the manufacturer and CAN NOT be changed by the purchaser or as is in most cases the leasee of the machine. It is also closely regulated by the gameing commission.
Now the part that really ticks me off. They won't help me out!!! No secret codes. No special play techniques to win. Nothing!

bigdawg

Mar 19, 2012
8:28am

Block User

Interesting Cowboy. I realize slots are normally a losing proposition. But, with $170 in FSP I thought I would be able to play for several hours at least and keep my head above water. Such as jacki99 wrote. I have been a member here and read enough gambling books to know that VP paybacks are based on the stated paybacks for various hands on the machine and realize that 4 oak's, straight flushes and royals are a large percentage of that figure. Btw I have lost quickly before but the last two times for these events were very ugly. I realize that is a small sample , but I didn't see anyone winning.

LeoXVI

Mar 19, 2012
8:59am

Block User

Learning to play VP properly is a big plus...ultimately it's the luck of the draw. If I hit a royal everytime I was dealt 4 to the royal...I'd be a billionaire by now, and I've been playing since the '80's....back when JOB was the game.

CowboyKell

Mar 19, 2012
9:09am

Block User

Quote

Originally posted by: bigdawg
Interesting Cowboy. I realize slots are normally a losing proposition. But, with $170 in FSP I thought I would be able to play for several hours at least and keep my head above water. Such as jacki99 wrote. I have been a member here and read enough gambling books to know that VP paybacks are based on the stated paybacks for various hands on the machine and realize that 4 oak's, straight flushes and royals are a large percentage of that figure. Btw I have lost quickly before but the last two times for these events were very ugly. I realize that is a small sample , but I didn't see anyone winning.

I believe you are right about the small sample.
What we all have to remember is that our experience with any machine or machines is very, very short. The payout percentage is averaged over the life of the machine.
I believe my next question to the owner/operator of this large international gaming machine manufacturer will be about "retiring" the machines early if they are not on "average", that is if their lifetime average at the time they remove them is less than advertised.
I also wonder about video black jack games. These are still considered slots so they must pay out to the advertised "payback". So, what if no one ever plays correctly and always bust', will this give someone who plays correctly a better advantage??

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