CIA torture report

Dodging again, I see.


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Originally posted by: pjstroh
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Originally posted by: Boilerman

I've asked you about 5 questions. Will PJ again dodge?



Yes I will ! Thanks for asking. You had lots of questions about Bengazhi too. Apparently you weren't embarrassed enough to learn the lesson that facts don't end with question marks. If you have something to say then have the courage to actually say it instead of asking someone else too.



"There are five fingers there. Do you see five fingers?"

"Yes."
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Originally posted by: Boilerman
I'm glad that we gained good intelligence as we tortured the enemy....
That sounded even better when Saddam said it.

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Originally posted by: alanleroy
There are four lights!

Are you sure about that, Jean-Luc?





Did we invade Iraq because of its rumored WMD's or did we again , remove one of history's worse mass murderers ...


Human rights organizations have documented government-approved executions, acts of torture and rape for decades since Saddam Hussein came to power in 1979 until his fall in 2003.





Mass grave.In 2002, a resolution sponsored by the European Union was adopted by the Commission for Human Rights, which stated that there had been no improvement in the human rights crisis in Iraq. The statement condemned President Saddam Hussein's government for its "systematic, widespread and extremely grave violations of human rights and international humanitarian law". The resolution demanded that Iraq immediately put an end to its "summary and arbitrary executions... and the use of rape as a political tool and all enforced and involuntary disappearances".[1]
Full political participation at the national level was restricted only to members of the Ba'ath Party, which constituted only 8% of the population.
Iraqi citizens were not allowed to assemble legally unless it was to express support for the government. The Iraqi government controlled the establishment of political parties, regulated their internal affairs and monitored their activities.
Police checkpoints on Iraq's roads and highways prevented ordinary citizens from traveling across country without government permission and expensive exit visas prevented Iraqi citizens from traveling abroad. Before traveling, an Iraqi citizen had to post collateral. Iraqi females could not travel outside of the country without the escort of a male relative.[2]
The activities of citizens living inside Iraq who received money from relatives abroad were closely monitored[citation needed].
Halabja poison gas attack:The Halabja poison gas attack occurred in the period 15–19 March 1988 during the Iran–Iraq War when chemical weapons were used by the Iraqi government forces and thousands of civilians in the Iraqi Kurdish town of Halabja were killed.[3]
Al-Anfal Campaign: In 1988, the Hussein regime began a campaign of extermination against the Kurdish people living in Northern Iraq. This is known as the Anfal campaign. The campaign was mostly directed at Shiite Kurds (Faili Kurds) who sided with Iranians during the Iraq-Iran War. The attacks resulted in the death of at least 50,000 (some reports estimate as many as 182,000) people, many of them women and children. A team of Human Rights Watch investigators determined, after analyzing eighteen tons of captured Iraqi documents, testing soil samples and carrying out interviews with more than 350 witnesses, that the attacks on the Kurdish people were characterized by gross violations of human rights, including mass executions and disappearances of many tens of thousands of noncombatants, widespread use of chemical weapons including Sarin, mustard gas and nerve agents that killed thousands, the arbitrary imprisoning of tens of thousands of women, children, and elderly people for months in conditions of extreme deprivation, forced displacement of hundreds of thousands of villagers after the demolition of their homes, and the wholesale destruction of nearly two thousand villages along with their schools, mosques, farms and power stations.[3][4]
In April 1991, after Saddam lost control of Kuwait in the Persian Gulf War, he cracked down ruthlessly against several uprisings in the Kurdish north and the Shia south. His forces committed full-scale massacres and other gross human rights violations against both groups similar to the violations mentioned before. Estimates of deaths during that time range from 20,000 to 100,000 for Kurds, and 60,000 to 130,000 for Shi'ites.[5]
In June 1994, the Hussein regime in Iraq established severe penalties, including amputation, branding and the death penalty for criminal offenses such as theft, corruption, currency speculation and military desertion, while government members and Saddam's family members were immune from punishments ranging around these crimes.[6]
On March 23, 2003, during the 2003 invasion of Iraq, Iraqi television presented and interviewed prisoners of war on TV, violating the Geneva Convention.
Also in April 2003, CNN revealed that it had withheld information about Iraq torturing journalists and Iraqi citizens in the 1990s. According to CNN's chief news executive, the channel had been concerned for the safety not only of its own staff, but also of Iraqi sources and informants, who could expect punishment for speaking freely to reporters. Also according to the executive, "other news organizations were in the same bind."[7]
After the 2003 invasion of Iraq, several mass graves were found in Iraq containing several thousand bodies total and more are being uncovered to this day.[8] While most of the dead in the graves were believed to have died in the 1991 uprising against Saddam Hussein, some of them appeared to have died due to executions or died at times other than the 1991 rebellion.
Also after the invasion, numerous torture centers were found in security offices and police stations throughout Iraq. The equipment found at these centers typically included hooks for hanging people by the hands for beatings, devices for electric shock and other equipment often found in nations with harsh security services and other authoritarian nations


And no , you can 't equate the above , with those killed in by accident in efforts to remove similar despots and terrorists .

Bob

















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Originally posted by: pjstroh
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Originally posted by: Roulette Man
Does Diane Feinstein remember people having to jump to their deaths and the countless number of firemen and policemen who either lost their lives that day or had health related issues that led to death? Remember, we still didn't know if more was forthcoming.

If any of this causes an American to lose his or her life and is attributable to this report, then people have blood on their hands.



I'm sure she does....and the investigation reveals torturing people from the MIddle East didn't lead to the capture of 911's architects. it did lead to a bullshit war in Iraq based on the false premise Sadam Hussein was behind 911.

Our government does have blood on its hands. It comes from any soldier sent to Iraq on the BS premise he was avenging 911....and on any soldier that was killed by a terrorist recruit spawned from the war crimes committed in Abuh Grahib or Guantanimo.


Oh Horsesh!t PJ. The US never said hussein was behind 9/11, we said he was harboring those who were behind or involved in 9/11 and those soldiers over there were avenging 9/11 and it's degrading to them to say anything else.

I don't like that this country goes around the globe rattling it's sword for whatever purposes but after 9/11 the US was going to go kick some ass somewhere, did you think this country would sit back after those attacks and do nothing?

Concerning the torture of those prisoners? if it saved american lives and led to valuable information, then so be it. Have you actually watched any of the beheadings that have occured? I have, and it's probably the most barbaric thing I've ever seen. The most tragic thing I've ever seenwere the people jumping out of the twin towers because they knew there time was up and they had a choice to make on how they were going to die and they made it.

Would Forkie please link to Saddam's quote. Boiler is quite happy that we stopped the bad guys from killing American's. Is Forkie not?


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Originally posted by: forkushV
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Originally posted by: Boilerman
I'm glad that we gained good intelligence as we tortured the enemy....
That sounded even better when Saddam said it.


So, I got to the debate late.

I did read the report though. I may never recover the brain cells that committed suicide for being subjected to the torture of that bureaucratic mess called a report.

The contradictions throughout are amazing. Did no one edit it for coherent content?

So where was the torture? I went through far worse treatment as a cadet at Texas A&M university.

For PJs enlightenment the report says that torture did in fact lead to the downfall of Bin Laden. Then in a conclusion section (i.e. opinion) it says that it did not.
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Originally posted by: pjstroh
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Originally posted by: hoops2
Apparently pj thinks bi-partisan means democrats


No, Hoops just makes shit up. And the sun rose today!

7 Democrats, 7 Republicans, 1 Independant

https://www.intelligence.senate.gov/memberscurrent.html


I hope this inexperienced doofus knows how to gamble better than making things up. Even MSNBC acknowledged on the Chris Matthews show that it was ONLY DEMOCRATS who signed off on this report, and without ever even interviewing any of the CIA or admin. bosses or the CIA field agents in charge of interrogation.

Of course, when those folks with the facts were interviewed on various networks after the report came out, we found the truth to be much different than the stumbling, bumbling liberal protection program the democrats stupidly scrambled together.

Another big win for the truth, and just one more reason why no democrat will be back in the white house for at least 16 years. PJ may want to use those years to educate himself in both political strategies and the real world if he wants his chance at saying anything significant that's based on facts instead of feelings by then.

Or maybe you can educate Pj with one of your "special plays"......
Rob, uhhh Al, you are not the one who should get involved in discussions about the truth. You have no idea what the word means.
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