Cosmo counts odds bet at Craps

Changed my mind about the response I originally wrote for this space.

But, I may be back.

OK, I'm back. But with a different response.

Money La wrote:

I want to know. Hogwash does not bother me, I live near a pig farm.

I think I know the answer.

It's either "Dice Influence", cheating of some sort, perhaps collusion with an employee, introducing equipment to the game, or some other nefarious and illegal deed.

Or, maybe you intend to change your name to "MoneyLainger" and sell books and videos.

Money, you are completely batshit insane. Seriously. Any objective reader of this thread, or any of my posts, will know that I've NEVER said that the odds 'will make you a winner in a negative expectation game'. I've never said that. In fact, I've said the opposite, but you ignore it because you'd rather make the opposite argument instead of responding to what I actually write. You are a fcking idiot. No offense.

Your statement of "You still dont understand that the edge on your odds and passline bet has NOTHING to do with the chance of winning. " is so fucking off the reservation that it's scary. Likewise when you say "Dont give me any BS about lowering the house edge-- because the house is still more likely to win. So it doesnt matter if the edge is 1% or one-tenth of one percent. " It matters massively. By your logic, you would only put in one coin into a slot, even though you'd need 5 to qualify for a progressive that might even be high enough to turn it into a positive expecation game - hell, the HA is meaningless, right?

I hope you aren't allowed to drive, own property, enter into contracts, or vote.

What I HAVE said is that, playing a game with less of a house advantage means you have a better chance to win. If you play a game with a greater HA, you have less of a chance to win. It actually matters. Being an idiot, you can't grasp this. Too bad. Everyone on this board knows this to be true, except you.

BTW I'm pretty sure you are nothing like what you represent here - my guess is you are a 24 yr old college dropout living in mom's basement, or something of the sort.

shlomo...

how come you did not deny being a shyster or an idiot?





you know I'm jk, and stirring the pot.

shlomo, now we're getting somewhere. if betting the odds will not make you a winner, why would you pour more money into a losing bet? please explain. then you can go on your merry way.

while I hate to bring up a different casino game during a discussion about craps, I must comment about something Bob Dancer said at one of his VP lectures that I attended. Bob asked the audience, "which player is the smarter player?" and then Bob gave us the play differences of player A and player B. Here's what Bob said:

Player A takes $50 to a $1 9/6 jacks or better video poker machine and plays ten hands for $5 each. After his ten hands, he takes whatever he won from those ten hands and leaves.

Player B takes the same $50 and will keep playing until all his money is lost or he wins something big. In other words, if he keeps getting small wins with his money, he keeps running it through the machine.

So, which player is smarter, bob dancer asked? And then he said player A is smarter, because VP is a negative expectation game and the less you play, the smarter you are.

So returning to craps. If we all agree craps is a negative expectation game, why would you give the casino more of your money to play it?

roadtrip, of course what I am talking about is dice influencing. while legal, it is unwelcomed by certain casino companies. the Nevada Gaming Commission has said that DI is legal but casinos can't be forced to do business with DIs just as they wont do business with card counters in BJ. If you read any of the DI books including Sharpshooters classic you will find that they advocate betting max odds using a come bet system -- but they believe that they have turned the negative expectation game of craps into a positive expectation game.

and roadtrip, read Sharpshooter's book, expecially the chapter on betting and odds and what he has to say about the math of the odds. it very clearly spells out why you want to bet full odds -- when you have a chance of winning. and that makes all the difference.

yes, you can still make your odds bets. you can go to casino royale and bet their 100X odds if you like thinking the math is on your side (and it never is) but unless you can influence dice to some degree -- ANY degree -- you are merely betting more money on LUCK. As the Nevada Gaming Commission wrote in its opinion about DI, craps can be played as a game of skill and by giving the dice to the players the casinos should recognize that some players may have a skill and that is part of the game of craps.

Also as part of its opinion the NGC said craps shooters must follow this rule to be a valid throw: dice must fly in the air, must hit the table surface at least once, and must hit the back wall. other than that, said the NGC, how the player sets the dice or how hard or soft it is thrown is up to the player. And by giving the dice to players, the casinos should observe and recognize this.

edited to fix typos

Road, it's a waste of time to argue with idiots. They ignore your statements, attribute others to you that you never uttered, then make strawmen counterarguments. It makes them feel good, but the whole board understands that those folks aren't bringing the potato salad to the Mensa picnic.

Since he has fun pretending to be some ex-millionaire high roller on this board, let him (and ignore his off-scale stupidity). Anyone who understands anything about how gambling works knows that he's a complete retard.

shlomo.... Are you suggesting that I've had a battle of wits with someone who is unarmed, or perhaps brought a knife to a gun fight?

MoneyLa.... IF you choose to discuss DI & the Sharpshooter book, please start the conversation in a new thread. I've plenty to say about that, but NOT in this conversation. Hijacking a thread is, IMHO, unfair to other forum users I'd also be happy to discuss what you said about Dancer, if it is in a new topic, for the same reason. Or the NGC. If it is one thread for one topic. Thanks.

When you do start those new threads, please bring something more than a feather pillow.

roadtrip--- the other subjects have been discussed before all over the Internet. There is no need to open a new thread. Oh, and road trip your signature line "the less you bet, the more you lose when you win" really says it all. Of course you left out the flip side -- the more you bet, the more you lose when you lose.

shlomo, after your discourse about not helping those with kidney failure I really want nothing to do with you anymore. I only hope that as you get older you remain in good health and won't need public assistance to maintain the quality of life that you and your family would want you to have.

I left out nothing on my current signature line, although I now realize I made a mistake when I put it into my profile. It should have read, "The less you bet, the more you lose if you win." My mistake, but it does not matter, because I have traditionally been changing my signature every 6-8 weeks or so anyway, and I'm about due for a new one.

It is a phrase I often say to others when I hear someone on a machine hit a winner and say something like, "I just switched from dollars to quarters", or while playing poker.

It is meant to be not a serious response to some situations, and not to apply to gambling in general or as a rule.

I do not blame you for your hesitancy in starting new threads on those other topics, or taking the easy out by saying they have been previously discussed on other sites. Perhaps there is no need to open a new thread, even though they have not been discussed on LVA FFA, (to my knowledge & without searching the site archives) because discussions on those topics may once again make someone look foolish.

You seem to be hung up on the belief, and made a blanket statement to the effect that betting more leads to bigger losses. That generalized statement, in some situations and for the long run during those situations, is incorrect.

One of us has a total lack of understanding when it comes to gaming, gambling, odds, strategies, math, the statistical norm, probabilities, advantages, promotions, maximizing comps at no cost, and other aspects which strongly affect a players bottom line.

they certainly have been discussed here over the last several years too.

Im starting another thread with some observations that I made tonight about craps at Cosmo. We stopped in to check the place out.

Really there is no point to discuss this any longer. Because we are actually using the same information to defend different points of view. I will commend you roadtrip for approaching the discussion like a gentleman-- thank you.
But please dont say I have a lack of understanding. I know damn well the games, the betting, etc but we are talking about different things. And it is my fault that the discussion got off the direct point I was trying to make which is-- no combination of bets, amount of odds, types of bets, amount of bets can beat a negative expectation game. You in fact also said that in the long run you will lose to the game of craps-- which was my point all along.