Cosmo counts odds bet at Craps

Personally, I have been known to play the dark side but very rarely as I tend not to do so well.

Thanks for the info.

you darkside players should always bet max odds, because you are more likely to win. unfortunately, the casinos know you are more likely to win so they penalize you by asking you to risk more money to win less.

The thing that has been overlooked and or ignored in all of these types of discussions is the personal philosophy, agenda, and goals of the individual who has joined the game.

Answer the question, "WHY am I playing?" and you'll be able to figure out the best approach for you.

Whether it's "Win big or go home broke", or "If I play for 2 hours, I'll get a free drink (maybe more if I tip the waitress) and buffet if I don't go broke first" is the determining factor.

To some, a $50.00 win will make them jump for joy, while to others, that same $50.00 is a tip to the cocktail waitress you're trying to impress.

NOT everyone has the same goals, so there is no right or wrong for that individual when all other factors are considered. The little extra HA given up by not taking or laying odds may allow that player to stay and play by avoiding the volatility of betting larger, for 4 hours, and get their room comped.

Our goal should not be to argue or belittle others for choices they make, it should be to educate them so that those choices are understood.

We all know smoking is bad for us. Some quit. Some won't. That is there choice.

You will know when it's time to go home - when you've won too much.

So given the long term (forever) and proper bankroll (unlimited) will I be better off financially with:

a) $5 pass line bet
b) $5 pass line bet with full odds

over the long term:

a. your pass line bet will lose 1.4% over the long run. how much money in total that you will lose depends on how much you bet over time.
b. your passline bet with full odds will lose money over the long run, as will betting just the passline alone over the long run. and the more you bet, the more you will lose.

betting odds will not make you win.

I'm afraid that Money has officially gone off the deep end, especially with his nonsense about why one would take max odds (laying) on darkside stuff but not on pass lines. Trust me, there is absolutely no difference, from a expectation viewpoint, to either approach. He doesn't think like that, and I blame the schools, but whatever.

To answer your question correctly:

You are better longterm with unlimited bankroll to bet $5 with max odds, 100x if you have the BR and inifinite time. You bring the house edge down to a fraction of a fraction of a percent. If you just bet the pass line, the house advantage is 1.4%, as Money sort of seems to understand (actually it's 1.41%).

Any grade schooler would tell you that, over enough trials, the lower house advantage means more money in your pocket, long term.

Combined house edge on the pass line and taking odds

Odds: House Advantage:

1X 0.848%

2X 0.606%

Full double odds 0.572%

3X 0.471%

3-4-5X 0.374%

5X 0.326%

10X 0.184%

20X 0.099%

100X 0.021%

Data from: https://wizardofodds.com/craps

You will lose the same amount in both scenarios.

However, if the house rates your odds bets(what we are discussing here yes yes?) then I would argue that one would have more fun plus the benefit of comps under scenario two.

The Cosmo can be telephoned at 702-698-7000.

I know this because I just called, asked for a host, and had a long conversation about their Craps comps and how they "work".

I represented myself as a "medium" player with Diamond status elsewhere, who wanted to completely understand the rating system before making my trip plans, since I have no history with Cosmo, but get comped elsewhere.

After my "introduction" I asked some questions. Here is the gist of his answers:

He stated that the Craps pit does rate for odds bets. When I queried him further, his answer (he seemed knowledgeable with the Cosmo system) was that they break the rating into three categories. "Hard", "General", & "Soft". Place Bets are "General", with an "average theo". Prop bets are rated at a higher theo, etc. He than told me that the total of line and full odds would be rated "Pretty much the same as at the Venetian", and that "Overall, it works out the same".

I got a little more specific, stating I usually bet $100 on the line, with full odds. And repeated until I had 3 numbers working, at which point I waited for results.

He told me that my "average action" would be $1500 (3x4x5x odds) and an hour of play would be "worth about $105 in comps."

I asked the comp policy for a room. He answered that they would expect 4 hours @ $150 average on Blackjack, or 4 hours @ $400 on Craps.

Armed with this "new" and "accurate" (If I got the "correct" answers and remember them accurately) a $100 line bet, with full odds (3x,4x,5x) (Average bet of $500), would be worth about 1/3rd of $105 per hour. We'll call it $36.00 per hour comp value to be generous. The $10.00 line bet with full odds would be worth about $3.60/hour in comps. (Average bet of $50.00)

I forgot to ask what the comps would be on a flat line bet, no odds. DOH! (I am not calling him back for that.)

I do not know how that compares to other casino's, since I do not play craps very often, or look at my "craps" rating. I doubt I played more than 2 hours total over 55 days in 2009.

I also should have asked about coin in for slots, & VP to get comps, but "forgot".

Sorry, it's late and I'm tired.

Goodnight.

Edited to add:

In looking at my previous post, the combined house edge with 3x,4x,5x odds is 0.374%. I'm still too tired to figure out what that means in relation to the information received from the host at Cosmo.

:::shrug:::

Edited again to add:

S*it. I just could not get any rest until I got one more answer to compare, so I called again. LOL

A single, flat line bet of $100.00 (NO odds) would be worth about $7.00 per hour in comps.

The host I spoke with (twice) is a table games host. He "thinks" coin in for a room comp is about $6,000 - $7,000. (Slots) No idea about VP.





Who suggested I'm OCD? HUH? Who? Damn, I wanna know who said it.

I'm waiting......

shlomo, here's my rationale for why odds are better for "dont" players. Im sure you will disagree, but here they are:

1. as we all know, you dont bet odds until AFTER a point is established.

2. once a point is established the chances are greater that the point will lose.

3. because the chance is greater that the points will lose, the "dont odds" or "wrong way odds" are more likely to win.

that's it.

otherwise, I will say it again: craps is a negative expectation game. the more you play, the more you bet, the more you lose. and betting maximum odds or any odds will not change that.