Vegas Free-for-All - A Disturbance in Baltimore

A Disturbance in Baltimore

alanleroy

Apr 29, 2015
10:40pm

Quote

Originally posted by: jphelan
I get that Pot possession should be decriminalized -- with a fine instead of jail time -- or even legalized if the State so chooses.

However, sales of Illegal drugs is another issue....this is the root of the evil. Even if pot is legalized, people will be selling meth, crack, and heroin. Possession over a "reasonable" amount can only be someone distributing and they should be imprisoned for a LONG time.

I don't have the statistics, but I suspect a high % of the people incarcerated for drugs are there for possession with intent to distribute --- and they belong in prison. Selling drugs to addicts who overdose and die IS a violent crime and should be punished accordingly IMHO.

I would let all the "pot" offenders go free tomorrow --- IF we were tougher on people distributing hard drugs.

I already showed you how 6.5 million people a year die from cigarettes. People who smoke are addicts. What's the real difference between a tobacco farmer and an opium farmer? Why aren't you advocating that cigarettes be banned...and people who continue to sell them be imprisoned?

People overdose and die from Alcohol poisoning every day in America. More so than drug addicts. Why aren't you suggesting we need an Alcohol prohibition to save 2.5 million lives a year?

Selling drugs is no more a violent crime than selling Alcohol. The reason street gangs flourish in America is not because of drugs...but because of the illegality of drugs. The biggest blow ever to organized crime was Repeal. The biggest Boon to organized crime was prohibition.

Now...before you go all 'think of the children' on me...my suggestion that we'd be far better off legalizing drugs does not include selling to children or driving while loaded. I'd go with severe punishment for that. BUT other than that, I'd let each individual choose what to put in his own body. I would not put anyone in prison or jail or give them a ticket for choosing a different drug than I. I think that's just plain wrong and hypocritical in a society that pushes Cigarettes and Booze....And especially wrong coming from those who claim to want smaller government and more personal freedom.

jphelan

Apr 30, 2015
12:32am

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Quote

Originally posted by: alanleroy

Quote
Originally posted by: jphelan
I get that Pot possession should be decriminalized -- with a fine instead of jail time -- or even legalized if the State so chooses.

However, sales of Illegal drugs is another issue....this is the root of the evil. Even if pot is legalized, people will be selling meth, crack, and heroin. Possession over a "reasonable" amount can only be someone distributing and they should be imprisoned for a LONG time.

I don't have the statistics, but I suspect a high % of the people incarcerated for drugs are there for possession with intent to distribute --- and they belong in prison. Selling drugs to addicts who overdose and die IS a violent crime and should be punished accordingly IMHO.

I would let all the "pot" offenders go free tomorrow --- IF we were tougher on people distributing hard drugs.

So NO DRUG should be Illegal? What about prescription drugs and what about heroin, PCP, and Meth? I cannot imagine the mess we would have in society with so many wasted people walking around - talk about unintended consequences. Why not legalize rioting and looting and rape and murder?

There needs to be limits to behavior that can hurt others.....and there needs to be consequences for those who cross the line. Think about the wild west. You could do anything you wanted in your log cabin and carry a 6 shooter. However, if you shot someone unlawfully, you faced swift justice and probably a rope and a tree. If you were selling cocaine or heroin to the kids in the one room schoolhouse, I think you would face the same fate.....and rightfully so!

alanleroy

Apr 30, 2015
1:02am

Block User

Quote

Originally posted by: jphelan
So NO DRUG should be Illegal? What about prescription drugs and what about heroin, PCP, and Meth? I cannot imagine the mess we would have in society with so many wasted people walking around - talk about unintended consequences. Why not legalize rioting and looting and rape and murder?

There needs to be limits to behavior that can hurt others.....and there needs to be consequences for those who cross the line. Think about the wild west. You could do anything you wanted in your log cabin and carry a 6 shooter. However, if you shot someone unlawfully, you faced swift justice and probably a rope and a tree. If you were selling cocaine or heroin to the kids in the one room schoolhouse, I think you would face the same fate.....and rightfully so!

How on God's green earth can you equate some drug addict shooting heroin in his own home with 'Rioting, Looting, Rape and Murder'? If you really can't see the difference between someone harming himself with what he ingests (like smokers or drinkers) and rape and murder then there is no hope for you ever really understanding the problem.

Why don't you make the same argument for Alcoholics whose lives are ruined by a bottle? Why don't you want to jail smokers who are slowly killing themselves too? And I already mentioned that this only applies to adults deciding for themselves not children so that's a not starter.

So given that we are only talking about adults harming themselves not rioting, rape, murder or children or any of the other bullshit you made up...why can't you see that it's wrong to punish people for the drug they choose to take? Why can't you see that it's just not working and never has? Why can't you see that this is a public health problem and not a criminal justice problem? Why can't you see the waste of trillions of dollars? Why can't you see that the police can't focus on violent crimes that really hurt other people like Murder, Assault, and Rape because we waste over half our resources punishing others because they choose to take illegal drugs? Think about that next time you take a drink.

forkushV

Apr 30, 2015
1:21am

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Quote

Originally posted by: Tutontow
Dr. King is rolling over in his grave...

"But it is not enough for me to stand before you tonight and condemn riots. It would be morally irresponsible for me to do that without, at the same time, condemning the contingent, intolerable conditions that exist in our society. These conditions are the things that cause individuals to feel that they have no other alternative than to engage in violent rebellions to get attention. And I must say tonight that a riot is the language of the unheard. And what is it America has failed to hear?...It has failed to hear that the promises of freedom and justice have not been met. And it has failed to hear that large segments of white society are more concerned about tranquility and the status quo than about justice and humanity." - Martin Luther King Jr.

hoops2

Apr 30, 2015
2:39am

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Baltimore has been under Democratic control for 48 years. Whatever problems Baltimore has, lies at the Democratic Party doorstep.

Being the lapdogs of the Democratic Party has not done the blacks much good.

CowboyKell

Apr 30, 2015
3:24am

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Quote

Originally posted by: forkushV<br"And it has failed to hear that large segments of white society are more concerned about tranquility and the status quo than about justice and humanity." - Martin Luther King Jr.

This is VERY true. I am guilty of it myself.

There IS racism in this world. I see it everyday. Do you not?

I do not consider myself a racist. Yet I detest all of those, no matter their race, who refuse to constructively contribute to society according to their own ability. This is often seen as racism.

I believe that I should (and do) help those less fortunate that need help, no matter their race. The problem lies in the difference of ideals between myself and those who pass judgment on me for whom I choose to help.

jphelan

Apr 30, 2015
5:37am

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Quote

Originally posted by: alanleroy

Quote
Originally posted by: jphelan
So NO DRUG should be Illegal? What about prescription drugs and what about heroin, PCP, and Meth? I cannot imagine the mess we would have in society with so many wasted people walking around - talk about unintended consequences. Why not legalize rioting and looting and rape and murder?

There needs to be limits to behavior that can hurt others.....and there needs to be consequences for those who cross the line. Think about the wild west. You could do anything you wanted in your log cabin and carry a 6 shooter. However, if you shot someone unlawfully, you faced swift justice and probably a rope and a tree. If you were selling cocaine or heroin to the kids in the one room schoolhouse, I think you would face the same fate.....and rightfully so!

Can't you see I have no issue with harming oneself ---- but I have issues with someone harming someone else? --- especially if they are breaking laws to do so. Shoot all the heroin you want ---> but shouldn't there be some culpability to someone selling you the heroin, especially if heroin is an ILLEGAL substance. Heroin is worse than alcohol and smoking in that it WILL KILL most people who use it in < 10 years. As such, it needs to be a controlled substance and people "pushing" heroin need to face stiff penalties......and I suspect that is a significant % of the people serving time in jail for drug offenses.

alanleroy

Apr 30, 2015
7:05am

Block User

Quote

Originally posted by: jphelan
Can't you see I have no issue with harming oneself ---- but I have issues with someone harming someone else? --- especially if they are breaking laws to do so. Shoot all the heroin you want ---> but shouldn't there be some culpability to someone selling you the heroin, especially if heroin is an ILLEGAL substance. Heroin is worse than alcohol and smoking in that it WILL KILL most people who use it in < 10 years. As such, it needs to be a controlled substance and people "pushing" heroin need to face stiff penalties......and I suspect that is a significant % of the people serving time in jail for drug offenses.

And how is this war on drugs working out? Our jails are full of drug users and drug pushers and there's more illegal drugs on the streets than ever. There's 3 kids looking to take over for every one that goes to prison. The bottom line is that it isn't working. It never has worked. It's cost over a trillion dollars and it will never work. Legalization takes the easy money out of the equation. Just like repeal ended the easy money for the mob. If people want to kill themselves with Heroin, that's their choice, not yours.

And still you don't argue that we should send the Tobacco 'pushers' to jail for killing 6.5 million people a year. They are just as dead as if they'd been on Heroin...it only takes a little longer.

And while I understand it's a big leap for you to accept that we'd be better off with legalization, perhaps we can agree on a first step. You already said that you didn't want to punish people who USE illegal drugs. Would you support the DECRIMINALIZATION of possession and consumption of any drug? That means that no adult would be arrested or jailed or imprisoned for simply possessing or consuming drugs that are illegal today. It's a good starting point.

Now I suspect you might be concerned that something like this might open up the gates of Hell and half of society would be hooked on hard drugs in 6 months. Fear not. There's actually a precedent for this. The country of Portugal decriminalized possession and use of any drug back in 2001. 15 years later, drug abuse has been cut in half. And that's not because 1/2 the people died. It's because the problem was treated as a medical problem and not a crime problem.

Tutontow

Apr 30, 2015
7:51am

Block User

Quote

Originally posted by: CowboyKell

Quote
Originally posted by: forkushV<br"And it has failed to hear that large segments of white society are more concerned about tranquility and the status quo than about justice and humanity." - Martin Luther King Jr.

Yep I have to agree. First off thanks Forkie for the quote. I will say most white folks seem to want to solve problems on the internet or around the water cooler rather than getting actively involved.

Forkie, let me ask you do you feel the riots are justified in this case? I for one feel we should never resort to violence unless we are being physically attacked as an individual or as in the case of war we are protecting some one else.

As far as the riots go to get your point across I feel all races have enough of a voice in todays America they don't have to resort to rioting and looting to get attention to their plight.

malibber2

Apr 30, 2015
8:02am

Block User

As far as the riots go to get your point across I feel all races have enough of a voice in today's America they don't have to resort to rioting and looting to get attention to their plight.

If that were true problems would be getting solved not getting worse. Income inequality is getting worse not better and income inequality has a lot to do with these problems.

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