Vegas Free-for-All - A Disturbance in Baltimore

A Disturbance in Baltimore

hoops2

Apr 30, 2015
8:08am

Until black society and their leaders take responsibility for their actions, the problem will not get better. Blaming others is not a solution.

malibber2

Apr 30, 2015
8:22am

Block User

With poor schools, not enough jobs and the criminalization of petty offenses a lot of them are denied from ever becoming full fledged members of society. As such second class citizens, they can't take responsibility for their own actions. I believe both Alan Leroy and even the Koch Brothers agree with me on that point. Unfortunately we have a certain group of "job creators" that needs an ever increasing supply of second class citizens to keep their profits up. Until we grow the collective balls to tell that group that enough is enough we are going to be stuck in a permanent decline.

Quote

Originally posted by: hoops2
Until black society and their leaders take responsibility for their actions, the problem will not get better. Blaming others is not a solution.

hoops2

Apr 30, 2015
9:24am

Block User

Petty crime is not the problem as Baltimore has the 5th highest murder rate in the country and above average violent crime rate. 56 blacks were killed prior to this incident. Where were the protests over that? The city is almost 65% black, have a black mayor and a number of councilmen are black. The blacks need to take responsibility & they along with liberals need to stop finding scapegoats.

alanleroy

Apr 30, 2015
9:26am

Block User

Quote

Originally posted by: malibber2
With poor schools, not enough jobs and the criminalization of petty offenses a lot of them are denied from ever becoming full fledged members of society.

I agree with you. Many are locked into a cycle of poverty and few escape. I imagine we disagree on our solutions though. Like I support a vouchers for school choice and enterprise zones with no taxes or minimum wage to produce first jobs for teens.

jphelan

Apr 30, 2015
9:31am

Block User

Quote

Originally posted by: alanleroy

...

And while I understand it's a big leap for you to accept that we'd be better off with legalization, perhaps we can agree on a first step. You already said that you didn't want to punish people who USE illegal drugs. Would you support the DECRIMINALIZATION of possession and consumption of any drug? That means that no adult would be arrested or jailed or imprisoned for simply possessing or consuming drugs that are illegal today. It's a good starting point.

Now I suspect you might be concerned that something like this might open up the gates of Hell and half of society would be hooked on hard drugs in 6 months. Fear not. There's actually a precedent for this. The country of Portugal decriminalized possession and use of any drug back in 2001. 15 years later, drug abuse has been cut in half. And that's not because 1/2 the people died. It's because the problem was treated as a medical problem and not a crime problem.

Would I support the decriminalization of consumption of any drug?
Yes - but possession beyond a certain point becomes distribution (i.e. 50 pounds of heroin).

Would you recognize that heroin, meth, and PCP addiction is evil and something that needs to be avoided if possible and discouraged at a minimum? Do you know that ~90% of people who use heroin die within 10 years - and rehab rates are very poor?

So if prison is not discouraging though distributing controlled substances (I personally think it does to some degree), how about hitting folks in the pocketbook - as they do in Australia. If someone is caught distributing drugs, they should be fined severely and if fines as not collected in a timely fashion the offernder should be denied all government benefits including SNAP, Unemployment, Medicaid, income tax refunds, social security, etc and a Lien should be placed on any property they own. The same should be done for those who do not pay child support. Would you agree?

Boilerman

Apr 30, 2015
9:51am

Block User

Expectations need to be raised within the black community. Our society has cut blacks slack for decades, and because of this they've learned to under perform. True black leaders need to talk about the disproportionate percentage of problems with blacks, and tell them that this is not acceptable. Until poor performance isn't seen as expected, normal and acceptable within the black community, blacks will continue to struggle.

Those who believe that society should coddle blacks are doing this group no favor.

Quote

Originally posted by: Tutontow

Quote
Originally posted by: CowboyKell
Quote
Originally posted by: forkushV<br"And it has failed to hear that large segments of white society are more concerned about tranquility and the status quo than about justice and humanity." - Martin Luther King Jr.

This is VERY true. I am guilty of it myself.

There IS racism in this world. I see it everyday. Do you not?

I do not consider myself a racist. Yet I detest all of those, no matter their race, who refuse to constructively contribute to society according to their own ability. This is often seen as racism.

I believe that I should (and do) help those less fortunate that need help, no matter their race. The problem lies in the difference of ideals between myself and those who pass judgment on me for whom I choose to help.

Yep I have to agree. First off thanks Forkie for the quote. I will say most white folks seem to want to solve problems on the internet or around the water cooler rather than getting actively involved.

Forkie, let me ask you do you feel the riots are justified in this case? I for one feel we should never resort to violence unless we are being physically attacked as an individual or as in the case of war we are protecting some one else.

As far as the riots go to get your point across I feel all races have enough of a voice in todays America they don't have to resort to rioting and looting to get attention to their plight.

alanleroy

Apr 30, 2015
9:56am

Block User

Quote

Originally posted by: jphelan

Quote
Originally posted by: alanleroy

...

And while I understand it's a big leap for you to accept that we'd be better off with legalization, perhaps we can agree on a first step. You already said that you didn't want to punish people who USE illegal drugs. Would you support the DECRIMINALIZATION of possession and consumption of any drug? That means that no adult would be arrested or jailed or imprisoned for simply possessing or consuming drugs that are illegal today. It's a good starting point.

Now I suspect you might be concerned that something like this might open up the gates of Hell and half of society would be hooked on hard drugs in 6 months. Fear not. There's actually a precedent for this. The country of Portugal decriminalized possession and use of any drug back in 2001. 15 years later, drug abuse has been cut in half. And that's not because 1/2 the people died. It's because the problem was treated as a medical problem and not a crime problem.

No...because I believe drug abuse should be treated as a public health issue. Addicts shouldn't have to buy their drugs on the street from gangsters. They should get them at....wait for it....A drug store. And some of the money we save by not locking them up should be spent getting them medical help. And that's how Portugal cut drug abuse in half.

As a side note, even though I don't think it's relevant, your numbers are WAY off. 90% of heroin users do not die within 10 years. 16% die within 20 years. Now to put that in perspective 33% of smokers will eventually die of smoking related causes. It may take a little longer, but they're just as dead.

https://jod.sagepub.com/content/40/1/121.abstract

And just to be clear, I do not think heroin addiction is good or should be encouraged. It's just obvious that what we're doing now isn't working, is a huge waste of money and has ruined more lives than it's saved.... and it's time for a new approach.

CowboyKell

Apr 30, 2015
10:15am

Block User

Income inequality has nothing to do with racism.

The inequality is a direct result of the mass influx of very cheap unskilled labor into our workforce. Most of these workers soon realize that they can make as much if not more money without doing the work. They then need to be replaced by new cheap labor. Rinse, repeat...... Crony capitalist and corrupt government keep this policy in action.

Boilerman

Apr 30, 2015
10:20am

Block User

I'm always amazed that Liberals don't rail on government for allowing a steady stream of unskilled hard working illegals into the United States, putting downward pressure on unskilled labor wages for Americans.

I suspect it's because Liberals don't believe in the supply/demand curve.

Quote

Originally posted by: CowboyKell
Income inequality has nothing to do with racism.

The inequality is a direct result of the mass influx of very cheap unskilled labor into our workforce. Most of these workers soon realize that they can make as much if not more money without doing the work. They then need to be replaced by new cheap labor. Rinse, repeat...... Crony capitalist and corrupt government keep this policy in action.

jphelan

May 1, 2015
1:21am

Block User

Quote

Originally posted by: alanleroy
...

...because I believe drug abuse should be treated as a public health issue. Addicts shouldn't have to buy their drugs on the street from gangsters. They should get them at....wait for it....A drug store. And some of the money we save by not locking them up should be spent getting them medical help. And that's how Portugal cut drug abuse in half.

As a side note, even though I don't think it's relevant, your numbers are WAY off. 90% of heroin users do not die within 10 years. 16% die within 20 years. Now to put that in perspective 33% of smokers will eventually die of smoking related causes. It may take a little longer, but they're just as dead.

https://jod.sagepub.com/content/40/1/121.abstract

And just to be clear, I do not think heroin addiction is good or should be encouraged. It's just obvious that what we're doing now isn't working, is a huge waste of money and has ruined more lives than it's saved.... and it's time for a new approach.

Good discussion - I am redacting the topic to just include the most recent posts to save space.

If I understand your "solution", anyone can go into any drug store any time and buy any substance they want including pain pills, heroin, crack, meth, etc.

Don't you think that would encourage other crimes from addicts to get the money they need for drugs? Or should the taxpayers pay for people to get their substances of choice? What about teens - can they go in and buy these substances? If not, what is the penalty for buying a dangerous substance for a minor?

There should be major consequences to discourage illegal distribution of highly dangerous substances and these consequences are currently incarceration --- I am OK with financial ruin as a consequence instead if you break "society rules" in the distribution of dangerous substances - but I strongly feel there needs to be consequences.

BTW - here is a link to a study stating the "survival rate" from heroin is more like 50% over a 33 year period:

Heroin Mortality Rates

I could not find anything on "survival rates" for alcohol or tobacco, but I vaguely remember something like tobacco reducing life expectancy 5 years and alcohol 2 years. This sounds far less severe to me than heroin.

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