Our system of justice has as one of its cornerstones the concept of innocent until proven guilty. So yes anyone can claim they are innocent it is what our constitution requires.
Perhaps, a more common sense approach is in order I can think of two:
1. Simply ask the customer if he or she forgot to pay for the sandwich, candy bar or whatever the case may be at checkout. Such an approach would save the taxpayer a lot of money. Once you say no I didn’t have a sandwich it is hard to deny you were shoplifting if an employee saw you consuming it, or if the wrapper is on your person.
2. Simply quit selling convenience store type food at the supermarket. Stick to things supermarkets traditionally sold in the past that can’t easily be consumed in the store. Unfortunately most grocery stores have done a number of things over the last twenty years to encourage people to consume things in the store. Most of the grocery stores in my area provide tables and chairs for people to sit at and eat inside the store far away from the checkout lines.
I see this case as a lesson of what happens when you don’t provide your employees adequate training or you simply don’t empower your employees to make common sense decisions when the situation calls for it.
Locally we had an interesting situation arise when an elderly lady got ran over at the convenience store on her way to pay for her gas she had already pumped. She suffered very serious life treating injuries which she never fully recovered from and ended up dying from two years later. While she was laying on the convenience store pavement bleeding to death and while the EMTs were working on her trying to save her life the clerk came out, interrupted the paramedics and asked if he could reach in her purse to get out money to pay for her gas. It seems the convenience store had a policy that any unpaid for gas at the end of a shift was the responsibility of the clerk to make up and if there was an unpaid shortfall the clerk would be fired.
This lady’s family ended up getting a six figure settlement from the convenience store for how they handled the situation.
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Originally posted by: makikiboyQuote
Originally posted by: malibber
Leo,
Generally speaking theft requires intent. That would be the issue. She says very vocally and publicly she didn't intend to leave without paying for the sandwich. It would be up to a jury to decide if she did. Given she just got out of the military and is five months pregnant it would be very difficult case for the state to prove.
That is why the store withdrew their charges. Their attorneys knew it is probable the store will be paying out a settlement the only question at this point is how much.
Malibber, give me a break. Anyone caught shoplifting can also claim that they didn't intent to not pay. this is all B.S., so easy to cry foul after getting caught. If we followed your line of logic then we should let off all shoplifters because intent cannot be proven, even if the store security found hundreds of dollars worth of items on a person. The person was going to pay for all that, just that she/he forgot. What a load of baloney. $5 or $500, it is still theft. what is your limit on where we should arrest the person? It is normal police department procedure to arrest the perps, whether it is for $5 or $500.
If she only had 1 sandwich and didn't pay then I might have believed her but 2 sandwiches and not pay? And who puts things they haven't purchased in their purse before paying? Sounds fishy to me.
Safeway withdrew their charges because of all the national attention and negative publicity that surrounded this incident.
You are correct, if this went to court it would have been difficult for a jury or a judge to rule against the couple, especially a military couple.
I frequent that particular safeway store that was involved in this incident. I have seen many immigrant families (micronesian) and "haole" families come in with their kids and run through the store and grab things and start eating them, then putting the wrappers in their pockets and not pay for them. I have even seen a kid that ate a chocolate bar and ended up with a chocolate lip walk past the cashier without paying. The cashier made a face so I know she knew, especially when the kid was still moving his mouth because he was munching on something. I think many of these families think that because they spend hundreds at the store they deserve to take some freebies. I have also found half eaten items left in other aisles. Also, what happens if another shopper slipped on a wrapper left by one of these people and hurt himself/herself? Or if someone bought some perishable item and opened it up at home only to find that it was partially eaten? The store could get sued for not making an attempt to stop the theft.
It is possible that safeway was trying to stop shoplifting and theft and were trying to make a point and it totally backfired in their face. That they stopped the couple indicated that they were looking out for the problem and were aware of the female eating the sandwich and they waited to see if the female was going to pay for it. Was it an honest mistake and the female really just forgot? Possibly. But if you had a store that lost money because of shoplifters wouldn't you want to make an example of someone to stop the shoplifting? The whole incident seems more of a blowup to try to solve a theft/shoplifting problem. Safeway really needed a good PR force to make them look like the victims. I would have probably have given the tv a story on shoplifting and how much it costs the store and how regular it was for customers to put items away and not pay for them. Make it look like they were attempting to correct a problem and unfortunately this incident occurred. In any event I think in the future Safeway will probably mention to the customer about paying for an item to remind the customer to pay before exiting. Not sure how that will work if the customer had stashed the item in her purse or bag.
You are incorrect, this wasn't the couple's first trip to the grocery store, in local tv interviews she said that she visited that safeway before so no, their cupboard wasn't bare. I think the press was playing up the story to get viewership up and get national exposure to get sympathy for the couple.
I am not sure why both husband and wife got arrested, I would think they would only hold the wife unless they either proved that the husband was part of this incident or the husband said something to indicate that he was part of it. As such it was SOP that they took the child into CPS custody since the parents had to be booked. It was unfortunate that everthing fell into the wrong place to make this a fiasco and the child had to be taken away. btw, a few days later there was another mother that was also fighting an arrest charge from another hawaii safeway store, she claims a similar incident, that she forgot to pay for items (plural) and was arrested. this one wasn't pregnant but opened up and ate something and got caught and "forgot" to pay. should she be let go too? where do you draw the line between theft/shoplifting and "forgetting"?
It is unfortunate because I agree with Malibber, there will probably be some undisclosed settlement to the couple to try to sweep everything under the carpet but the damage to safeway was already done. It also sends out a bad message to everyone, don't worry about shoplifting, just cry foul and make the store look like the bad guys, come up with some lame excuse to explain why you didn't pay for items and get the news people involved and maybe make a lot of bucks off the incident. Kind of sounds like the old cockroach in the food ploy.
Maybe safeway should put up a sign on their front door, something like "we appreciate you visiting our store, but please pay for your item before you consume it". lol.
No matter how you spell it out, IMHO it was theft. I do not think that the couple deserves to get money for committing a crime. We can also talk about occupy whatever and government or whatever, a store owner mainly cares about the bottom line and loss prevention. All other discussions about government, etc. is all apples and oranges and not a part of this incident.
We shall see what happens, mistakes do occur, I think the more honest people might let it go as a huge mistake made by safeway, actually the more honest people probably would have paid for the sandwiches (plural) before eating it.
sorry, I was out this weekend so didn't see this thread until now.
