Vegas Free-for-All - Dodd Frank agency cacthes Wells Fargo in massive fraud

Dodd Frank agency cacthes Wells Fargo in massive fraud

alanleroyII

Sep 20, 2016
7:48am

Quote

Originally posted by: forkushV
And the Great Recession of 2007 was largely caused by criminal fraud. When Moodys rated subprime mortgages as AAA that was criminal fraud, but there were no cops on the beat. When Goldman hyped the value of collateralized debt options while simultaneously shorting them, that was criminal fraud, but there were no cops on the beat.

If you really want that kind of criminal fraud to go unpunished, vote Republican, because they want to gut the agency and get rid of enforcement.

Funny. You used to blame deregulation and the Repeal of Glass Steagall for the Great Recession. Now you blame 'criminal fraud'.

Quote
Originally posted by: forkushV
Repealing Glass Steagall and letting the banks turn Wall Street and the home mortgage market into a big lottery caused the Great Recession. Us liberals opposed the repeal.

See....That was you back in 2014.

I wonder why you and your liberal ilk might have changed your opinion of what caused the 'Great Recession'....from 'Repealing Glass Steagall' to 'Criminal Fraud'.

Couldn't have anything to do with your Presidential Candidate whose largest contributors are the Wall Street Bankers. Nah. Couldn't have anything to do with her husband's signature on the repeal of Glass Steagall...Nah. Or that the Reinstatement of Glass Steagall is actually in the Republican Platform....Nothing to see here.

forkushV

Sep 20, 2016
8:11am

Block User

Quote

Originally posted by: alanleroyII

Quote
Originally posted by: forkushV
And the Great Recession of 2007 was largely caused by criminal fraud. When Moodys rated subprime mortgages as AAA that was criminal fraud, but there were no cops on the beat. When Goldman hyped the value of collateralized debt options while simultaneously shorting them, that was criminal fraud, but there were no cops on the beat.

If you really want that kind of criminal fraud to go unpunished, vote Republican, because they want to gut the agency and get rid of enforcement.

Funny. You used to blame deregulation and the Repeal of Glass Steagall for the Great Recession. Now you blame 'criminal fraud'.

Quote
Originally posted by: forkushV
Repealing Glass Steagall and letting the banks turn Wall Street and the home mortgage market into a big lottery caused the Great Recession. Us liberals opposed the repeal.

See....That was you back in 2014.

I wonder why you and your liberal ilk might have changed your opinion of what caused the 'Great Recession'....from 'Repealing Glass Steagall' to 'Criminal Fraud'...

Oh, there were multiple reasons for the meltdown. Allowing the banks to turn the home mortgage market into a big lottery. Criminal fraud by the ratings agencies and the banks. Repealing Glass Steagall (thanks Bill Clinton). The SEC not doing it's job. A clueless presidential administration ("The fundamentals of our economy are strong.").

With better and stronger cops on the beat, at least some of those things are now less likely. Thanks Obama.

alanleroyII

Sep 20, 2016
8:41am

Block User

Quote

Originally posted by: forkushV

Quote
Originally posted by: alanleroyII
Quote
Originally posted by: forkushV
And the Great Recession of 2007 was largely caused by criminal fraud. When Moodys rated subprime mortgages as AAA that was criminal fraud, but there were no cops on the beat. When Goldman hyped the value of collateralized debt options while simultaneously shorting them, that was criminal fraud, but there were no cops on the beat.

If you really want that kind of criminal fraud to go unpunished, vote Republican, because they want to gut the agency and get rid of enforcement.
Funny. You used to blame deregulation and the Repeal of Glass Steagall for the Great Recession. Now you blame 'criminal fraud'.

Quote
Originally posted by: forkushV
Repealing Glass Steagall and letting the banks turn Wall Street and the home mortgage market into a big lottery caused the Great Recession. Us liberals opposed the repeal.

See....That was you back in 2014.

I wonder why you and your liberal ilk might have changed your opinion of what caused the 'Great Recession'....from 'Repealing Glass Steagall' to 'Criminal Fraud'...

Oh I see. So it was not 'largely' caused by criminal fraud. Funny, back in 2014 I pointed out no less than 10 contributing factors to the recession....in response to your claim that 'Repeal of Glass Stegall....caused the Great Recession'. Way to spin it.

CowboyKell

Sep 20, 2016
9:35am

Block User

Quote

Originally posted by: forkushV

With better and stronger cops on the beat, at least some of those things are now less likely. Thanks Obama.

Except that there are NOT better stronger cops on the beat.

The "cops" that are placed are sat down with so many free donuts in front of them they can see no crimes taking place.

It's a crappy, inefficient bureaucracy that only pretends to do the job that is very much needed.......Maybe that was the intention.

jphelan

Sep 20, 2016
10:01am

Block User

Corporate bonus programs can be problematic. They focus on short term goals that are measurable and often neglect the long term. Remember the Volkswagon example? People were financially incentivized to increased MPG and decrease emissions and they were "successful" at the expense of the company's integrity. Likewise with Wells Fargo. Employees were financially incentivized to increase customers / accounts and by all accounts they were "successful".

These bonus programs need to be structured differently. Maybe have money collectible two years after the goal is "achieved" or have the money placed in escrow until 2 years have passed to prevent payment in case malfeasance is discovered?

forkushV

Sep 20, 2016
10:40am

Block User

Quote

Originally posted by: alanleroyII

Quote
Originally posted by: forkushV
Quote
Originally posted by: alanleroyII
Quote
Originally posted by: forkushV
And the Great Recession of 2007 was largely caused by criminal fraud. When Moodys rated subprime mortgages as AAA that was criminal fraud, but there were no cops on the beat. When Goldman hyped the value of collateralized debt options while simultaneously shorting them, that was criminal fraud, but there were no cops on the beat.

If you really want that kind of criminal fraud to go unpunished, vote Republican, because they want to gut the agency and get rid of enforcement.
Funny. You used to blame deregulation and the Repeal of Glass Steagall for the Great Recession. Now you blame 'criminal fraud'.

Quote
Originally posted by: forkushV
Repealing Glass Steagall and letting the banks turn Wall Street and the home mortgage market into a big lottery caused the Great Recession. Us liberals opposed the repeal.

See....That was you back in 2014.

I wonder why you and your liberal ilk might have changed your opinion of what caused the 'Great Recession'....from 'Repealing Glass Steagall' to 'Criminal Fraud'...
Oh, there were multiple reasons for the meltdown. Allowing the banks to turn the home mortgage market into a big lottery. Criminal fraud by the ratings agencies and the banks. Repealing Glass Steagall (thanks Bill Clinton). The SEC not doing it's job. A clueless presidential administration ("The fundamentals of our economy are strong.").

With better and stronger cops on the beat, at least some of those things are now less likely. Thanks Obama.

Oh I see. So it was not 'largely' caused by criminal fraud...

Yes it was largely caused by criminal fraud; that's why I said it. If you're looking for an overarching cause of the meltdown, it was the misguided frenzy by both Democrats and Republicans toward deregulation. Everyone and every business reacts to incentives. When banks and their executives are incentivized to turn their businesses into lotteries, they will do so. Good regulations need to stop that.

malibber2

Sep 20, 2016
10:42am

Block User

Quote

Originally posted by: CowboyKell

Quote
Originally posted by: forkushV

With better and stronger cops on the beat, at least some of those things are now less likely. Thanks Obama.

Interesting, all of the conservatives seem to be arguing that Dodd Frank is infective, so we need more regulation of big banks. I agree 100%. I think it is inexcusable and incomprehensible to conclude some 5,000 entry level employees all across the country were acting as rogue lone wolves unbeknownst to management. I think the Federal Government should pursue racketeering charges against WF, seize its assets and wind it down. That is the only way these bankers will learn a lesson.

jphelan

Sep 20, 2016
10:47am

Block User

My understanding is this activity was ILLEGAL BEFORE DODD FRANK. I also understand Senators and Congressmen were getting customer complaints that credit ratings were affected for customers with "ghost accounts". I don't see how the outcome would have been any different with or without Dodd Frank. Dodd Frank is only for the banking industry. Are you arguing that Dodd Frank helped somehow with the VolksWagon malfeasance?

forkushV

Sep 20, 2016
10:50am

Block User

Quote

Originally posted by: CowboyKell

Quote
Originally posted by: forkushV

With better and stronger cops on the beat, at least some of those things are now less likely. Thanks Obama.

Or you could be reality-based. As of about a year ago:

• $4.6 Billion: Money ordered in relief to consumers by CFPB enforcement actions
• 15 Million: Consumers who will receive relief because of CFPB enforcement actions
• $150 Million: Money ordered to be paid in civil penalties as a result of CFPB enforcement actions
• $75 Million: Monetary relief provided to consumers as a result of CFPB supervisory actions
• 775,000: Consumers who will receive remediation because of CFPB supervisory actions

malibber2

Sep 20, 2016
11:03am

Block User

Quote

Originally posted by: jphelan
My understanding is this activity was ILLEGAL BEFORE DODD FRANK. I also understand Senators and Congressmen were getting customer complaints that credit ratings were affected for customers with "ghost accounts". I don't see how the outcome would have been any different with or without Dodd Frank. Dodd Frank is only for the banking industry. Are you arguing that Dodd Frank helped somehow with the VolksWagon malfeasance?

Generally speaking, wide scale fraud is always actionable on both the state and federal level. The problem is prosecutors and politicians don’t have the stomach to prosecute corporate crooks. Often the excuse is given that this is simply how business is done and as in this example it would be argued that all big banks are committing similar acts and it just isn’t practical or possible to come in guns blazing shutting the entire banking industry down.

So, criminal acts are excused and low level scapegoats are offered up as a sacrifice along with promises to do better in the future. In other words, it is the whole too big to fail argument.

If you want a more theoretical explanation, years ago a school of thought emerged in the legal community (via the Chicago School of Law) that it is economically inefficient to prosecute corporate wrong doers and fines are almost always the appropriate legal remedy in such cases. Since that theory has been put into practice, corporate crooks know they are in no jeopardy of going to jail for criminal activity and that if the fines are low enough it is often profitable to engage in criminal activity. It is perverse really.

Anyway, we needed dedicated funding for investigators and prosecutors to investigate this type of fraud along with mandates that if criminal activity is found they will prosecute and there will be funding from the government to do so.

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