Vegas Free-for-All - Ebola - What Should the Gubmint Do?

Ebola - What Should the Gubmint Do?

chefantwon

Oct 28, 2014
10:00am

Quote

Originally posted by: pjstroh

Quote
Originally posted by: chefantwon
Quote
Originally posted by: BobOrme
I'm trying to figure out why PJ thinks people serving in our military are not volunteers. As someone who was draft-eligible in the early 1970's, I can say military service didn't used to be completely voluntary, but it has been completely voluntary since the government ended the draft.

...and a nurse who was in direct contact with people infected with ebola threatens to sue a governor for enacting a precautionary quarantine to prevent her from possibly spreading the disease to her family and friends, and the public in general? Over being housed in "inhumane conditions"? WTF? Was she staying at a Marriot while she was in West Africa?

Bob, I served in the Air Force and I wasn't drafted..

PJ, we Volunteered all of us who served since roughly the mid 1970's. We volunteered, those who served in both Gulf Wars. We volunteered, those who went to Kosovo, Hati, and Somalia.

Does PJ, get the picture?

No, chef, I don't get the picture. Not one bit. Tell me about the time where you told your commanding officers what base or part of the world you would be serving in....instead of the other way around. I'd love to hear that story.

I did, four times.

The first was my first duty assignment. I selected Germany, which I got.
The second was my first tour in Korea, I had my choice of bases, again I selected Germany.
The third, the base I went to in Germany closed, I got to choose where to go next, I choose Korea.

To be fair, I did go where they told be the rest of the time, but I did choose what to retrain to after serving 3 years as a security policeman....

malibber2

Oct 28, 2014
10:21am

Block User

So what you are saying is that your liberal view of Constitution allows you to believe the Federal Government under the CDC has the authority to Quarantine folks. If that is the case then the states do not because of the whole supremacy clause thing.

Quote

Originally posted by: DonDiego

Quote
Originally posted by: malibber2
The Constitution takes sort of a grim view on imprisonment of citizens without a trial.

DonDiego also disapproves of imprisonment of US citizens without a trial. But DonDiego recognizes there is a difference between "imprisonment" and "quarantine", as does the Law.

******quote***
Quarantine separates and restricts the movement of people who were exposed to a contagious disease to see if they become sick.

The federal government derives its authority for isolation and quarantine from the Commerce Clause of the U.S. Constitution.
Under section 361 of the Public Health Service Act (42 U.S. Code § 264), the U.S. Secretary of Health and Human Services is authorized to take measures to prevent the entry and spread of communicable diseases from foreign countries into the United States and between states.
The authority for carrying out these functions on a daily basis has been delegated to the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention (CDC).

States have police power functions to protect the health, safety, and welfare of persons within their borders. To control the spread of disease within their borders, states have laws to enforce the use of isolation and quarantine.
These laws can vary from state to state and can be specific or broad. In some states, local health authorities implement state law. In most states, breaking a quarantine order is a criminal misdemeanor.
***endquote***

Ref: Centers for Disease Control and Prevention

Boilerman

Oct 28, 2014
10:25am

Block User

States can enact and enforce law which do not in any way violate federal laws. States can quarantine.

Quote

Originally posted by: malibber2
So what you are saying is that your liberal view of Constitution allows you to believe the Federal Government under the CDC has the authority to Quarantine folks. If that is the case then the states do not because of the whole supremacy clause thing.

Quote
Originally posted by: DonDiego
Quote
Originally posted by: malibber2
The Constitution takes sort of a grim view on imprisonment of citizens without a trial.
DonDiego also disapproves of imprisonment of US citizens without a trial. But DonDiego recognizes there is a difference between "imprisonment" and "quarantine", as does the Law.

******quote***
Quarantine separates and restricts the movement of people who were exposed to a contagious disease to see if they become sick.

The federal government derives its authority for isolation and quarantine from the Commerce Clause of the U.S. Constitution.
Under section 361 of the Public Health Service Act (42 U.S. Code § 264), the U.S. Secretary of Health and Human Services is authorized to take measures to prevent the entry and spread of communicable diseases from foreign countries into the United States and between states.
The authority for carrying out these functions on a daily basis has been delegated to the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention (CDC).

States have police power functions to protect the health, safety, and welfare of persons within their borders. To control the spread of disease within their borders, states have laws to enforce the use of isolation and quarantine.
These laws can vary from state to state and can be specific or broad. In some states, local health authorities implement state law. In most states, breaking a quarantine order is a criminal misdemeanor.
***endquote***

Ref: Centers for Disease Control and Prevention

alanleroyII

Oct 28, 2014
11:34am

Block User

Quote

They just use the Commerce clause as the source of their authority....Like they do everything from drug laws to locally grown and locally sold farm commodities. The 10th amendment is essentially meaningless because virtually anything can be argued to have some negligible impact on interstate commerce.

Don

Oct 28, 2014
11:43am

Block User

Quote

Earlier DonDiego quoted the CDC on this matter.

The CDC addressed the issue which malibber2 raises explicitly:
"States have police power functions to protect the health, safety, and welfare of persons within their borders. To control the spread of disease within their borders, states have laws to enforce the use of isolation and quarantine.
These laws can vary from state to state and can be specific or broad. In some states, local health authorities implement state law. In most states, breaking a quarantine order is a criminal misdemeanor."

i.e. Both the individual States and the Federal Government claim the power to isolate and/or quarantine.

forkushV

Oct 28, 2014
1:17pm

Block User

Quote

Originally posted by: chefantwon

Quote
Originally posted by: pjstroh
Quote
Originally posted by: chefantwon
Quote
Originally posted by: BobOrme
I'm trying to figure out why PJ thinks people serving in our military are not volunteers. As someone who was draft-eligible in the early 1970's, I can say military service didn't used to be completely voluntary, but it has been completely voluntary since the government ended the draft.

...and a nurse who was in direct contact with people infected with ebola threatens to sue a governor for enacting a precautionary quarantine to prevent her from possibly spreading the disease to her family and friends, and the public in general? Over being housed in "inhumane conditions"? WTF? Was she staying at a Marriot while she was in West Africa?

Bob, I served in the Air Force and I wasn't drafted..

PJ, we Volunteered all of us who served since roughly the mid 1970's. We volunteered, those who served in both Gulf Wars. We volunteered, those who went to Kosovo, Hati, and Somalia.

Does PJ, get the picture?

No, chef, I don't get the picture. Not one bit. Tell me about the time where you told your commanding officers what base or part of the world you would be serving in....instead of the other way around. I'd love to hear that story.

No you didn't.

You ASKED for Germany, etc. But it wasn't really up to you, was it?

malibber2

Oct 28, 2014
1:35pm

Block User

That is sort of my point Don Diego has a very liberal view of the Constitution.

Quote

Originally posted by: alanleroyII

Quote
Originally posted by: malibber2
So what you are saying is that your liberal view of Constitution allows you to believe the Federal Government under the CDC has the authority to Quarantine folks. If that is the case then the states do not because of the whole supremacy clause thing.

Don

Oct 28, 2014
8:57pm

Block User

Quote

Originally posted by: malibber2
That is sort of my point Don Diego has a very liberal view of the Constitution.

It may or may not be DonDiego's "view". But all DonDiego has posted is that it is the view of the CDC.
If a quarantined person chooses to challenge the Constitutionality of the Law, the decision is likely not to incorporate poor old DonDiego's "view" into its decision making process.

But, in any case, in the previous post DonDiego was responding to malibber's contention that the Supremacy Clause forbade the States from imposing isolation and quarantine. This issue has already been decided by the Supreme Court. It is just not so.

In the 1824 case Gibbons v. Ogden, Chief Justice John Marshall referenced the power of the States to enact and enforce "inspection laws" from Article 1 of the Constitution as justification for the States to also implement "quarantine laws" and "health laws".
******quote***
That inspection laws may have a remote and considerable influence on commerce will not be denied, but that a power to regulate commerce is the source from which the right to pass them is derived cannot be admitted. The object of inspection laws is to improve the quality of articles produced by the labour of a country, to fit them for exportation, or, it may be, for domestic use. They act upon the subject before it becomes an article of foreign commerce or of commerce among the States, and prepare it for that purpose. They form a portion of that immense mass of legislation which embraces everything within the territory of a State not surrendered to the General Government; all which can be most advantageously exercised by the States themselves. Inspection laws, quarantine laws, health laws of every description, as well as laws for regulating the internal commerce of a State, and those which respect turnpike roads, ferries, &c., are component parts of this mass.

No direct general power over these objects is granted to Congress, and, consequently, they remain subject to State legislation. If the legislative power of the Union can reach them, it must be for national purposes, it must be where the power is expressly given for a special purpose or is clearly incidental to some power which is expressly given. It is obvious that the government of the Union, in the exercise of its express powers -- that, for example, of regulating commerce with foreign nations and among the States -- may use means that may also be employed by a State in the exercise of its acknowledged powers -- that, for example, of regulating commerce within the State. If Congress license vessels to sail from one port to another in the same State, the act is supposed to be necessarily incidental to the power expressly granted to Congress, and implies no claim of a direct power to regulate the purely internal commerce of a State or to act directly on its system of police. So, if a State, in passing laws on subjects acknowledged to be within its control, and with a view to those subjects, shall adopt a measure of the same character with one which Congress may adopt, it does not derive its authority from the particular power which has been granted, but from some other, which remains with the State and may be executed by the same means. All experience shows that the same measures, or measures scarcely distinguishable from each other, may flow from distinct powers, but this does not prove that the powers themselves are identical. Although the means used in their execution may sometimes approach each other so nearly as to be confounded, there are other situations in which they are sufficiently distinct to establish their individuality.
***endquote***

So, the Constitution grants States have the authority to quarantine. And the Federal Government may also quarantine in accordance with federal law.

QED

Don

Oct 29, 2014
1:18am

Block User

Uh-OH !

There's new evidence that "self-quarantine" may not work very well, related to the physician in New York City.

******quote***
Dr. Craig Spencer at first told officials that he isolated himself in his Harlem apartment — and didn’t admit he rode the subways, dined out and went bowling until cops looked at his MetroCard the sources said.
“He told the authorities that he self-quarantined. Detectives then reviewed his credit-card statement and MetroCard and found that he went over here, over there, up and down and all around,” a source said.
Spencer finally ’fessed up when a cop “got on the phone and had to relay questions to him through the Health Department,” a source said.
***endquote***
Ref: NY Post

People who do something wrong tend to lie.
DonDiego is especially troubled that a physician who knows better would lie about a matter like this.

chefantwon

Oct 29, 2014
10:13am

Block User

Quote

Originally posted by: forkushV

Quote
Originally posted by: chefantwon
Quote
Originally posted by: pjstroh
Quote
Originally posted by: chefantwon
Quote
Originally posted by: BobOrme
I'm trying to figure out why PJ thinks people serving in our military are not volunteers. As someone who was draft-eligible in the early 1970's, I can say military service didn't used to be completely voluntary, but it has been completely voluntary since the government ended the draft.

...and a nurse who was in direct contact with people infected with ebola threatens to sue a governor for enacting a precautionary quarantine to prevent her from possibly spreading the disease to her family and friends, and the public in general? Over being housed in "inhumane conditions"? WTF? Was she staying at a Marriot while she was in West Africa?

Bob, I served in the Air Force and I wasn't drafted..

PJ, we Volunteered all of us who served since roughly the mid 1970's. We volunteered, those who served in both Gulf Wars. We volunteered, those who went to Kosovo, Hati, and Somalia.

Does PJ, get the picture?

No, chef, I don't get the picture. Not one bit. Tell me about the time where you told your commanding officers what base or part of the world you would be serving in....instead of the other way around. I'd love to hear that story.

I did, four times.

The first was my first duty assignment. I selected Germany, which I got.
The second was my first tour in Korea, I had my choice of bases, again I selected Germany.
The third, the base I went to in Germany closed, I got to choose where to go next, I choose Korea.

To be fair, I did go where they told be the rest of the time, but I did choose what to retrain to after serving 3 years as a security policeman....

No you didn't.

You ASKED for Germany, etc. But it wasn't really up to you, was it?

It all depends of what the meaning of selected is.

I could have added the fact that I choose not to report to additional training after technical school and no one had any issues about it? ( my name was on the orders, but the ssan was wrong. Hence it wasn't me so I didn't go)

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