FERGUSON, MISSOURI

Here you go:
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Are you saying the prosecutor should've allowed statements like "shooting him in the back of the head" go to the grand jury with no clarificatio at all?

Yes, under the normal rules of a grand jury proceeding that is what the law requires the prosecutor to do. Namely, only present evidence that supports the indictment not evidence that makes the indictment less likely. The role of the grand jury is not to determine guilt or innocence of the accused it is to simply determine if there is probable cause. What this prosecutor did was said fuck going to trial I am going to put a stop to this for my buddies in blue. I am going to hold a trial in the grand jury proceeding where I control the whole show to get the result I want for my buddies on the police force.



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Originally posted by: jatki99
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Originally posted by: malibber2
I am trying to explain it from a legal point of view of what the law requires in terms of procedure and you don't want to understand that aspect of the case. Read the quote from Justice Scalia I posted focus on the part near the end where is says the accused has no right to have exculpatory evidence presented in a grand jury proceeding. Focus on the part where it says the accused has no right to testify. Focus on the part where is says the grand jury is not to enquire on the foundation of why the charges may be denied. Focus on the part where is says the grand jury is not to try the suspect’s defenses.

Every rule laid down by Justice Scalia himself in describing the role of a Grand Jury proceeding was not followed. The question you need to be asking is why were these rules not followed? It is the question everyone should be asking. If the facts are such a lay down for the police as many of you suggest why break all the rules to make sure the thing never goes to trial?



You're still not answering my question ie the example I gave(shooting in the back of the head). Better yet, why don't you single out something in particular, a single thing, and I'll really try and see where you're coming from because I still think the pros bent over backwards.


Regardless of this case or any like it should a prosecutor only present things that in his/her mind are factual? They would not include witness testimony they did not believe in would they? If so, it would seemingly hurt their chances of later winning an actual trial and lower their "win" percentage.
No it is not the prosecutor's job to determine what the overall facts of any given case are. The overall facts of the case are to be determined by the trial jury. The prosecutor's job is to try and assemble the facts that support a conviction to present to a jury. Our legal system is designed this way. For example if you hired a defense attorney to defend you in a criminal case you wouldn't want him or her arguing the facts in favor to convict you, and spend his or her time trying to determine if you are lying or telling the truth.

Now if the prosecutor determines a witness that supports conviction isn't credible the way to handle it is not to present that witness to the jury if you think it will hurt you case. What this guy did is take the best witnesses for convection and cross examine them like he was the defense attorney arguing before the trial jury. In other words he torpedoed the state's own witnesses. Then he took the witnesses that did not support conviction and handled them with kid gloves even though they weren't supposed to testify at all in the grand jury proceeding.


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Originally posted by: Liondownnow
Regardless of this case or any like it should a prosecutor only present things that in his/her mind are factual? They would not include witness testimony they did not believe in would they? If so, it would seemingly hurt their chances of later winning an actual trial and lower their "win" percentage.


I understand now what you are trying to say.


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Originally posted by: forkushV
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Originally posted by: rayxtwo
Mike Brown's buddy might be going to jail.

Perjury Charges



Ray
Proving that Ray will believe anything written by a website no one ever heard of.


I heard something about it on the news.

Mal said
"Yes, under the normal rules of a grand jury proceeding that is what the law requires the prosecutor to do. Namely, only present evidence that supports the indictment not evidence that makes the indictment less likely. The role of the grand jury is not to determine guilt or innocence of the accused it is to simply determine if there is probable cause. What this prosecutor did was said fuck going to trial I am going to put a stop to this for my buddies in blue. I am going to hold a trial in the grand jury proceeding where I control the whole show to get the result I want for my buddies on the police force.

You're saying he should withold evidence to get an indictment then? Please tell me then exactly how thsis testimony should be presented to the jury and how was it actually presented?

"..he was down on his knees and then I saw the policeman shoot him in the back of the head"

I know you can't say how it was exactly presented because you weren't there and that's why I think you're doing a lot of assuming in how things were handled. I see it as he(the pros.) did a thorough job in handling of the case. Bending over nackward in his explanation of the proceeding even.
I still wholeheartedly disagree that he was shooting for no indictment from the beginning or trying to protect the "boys in blue", no way in hell.

I believe I see what you're saying now but I don't agree so we'll just leave it at that my friend.

Yes as far the grand jury proceeding goes he isn't supposed to introduce evidence that proves the accused may be innocent that is not the role of a prosecutor or a grand jury in our legal system. When it moves to the trial phase the prosecutor cannot withhold evidence that indicates the defendant may be innocent. He has to turn that over to the suspect's defense attorney and it is the defense attorney's job to present that evidence to the trial jury.

You can disagree with me all you want, but that is how the procedure is supposed to work. The prosecutor didn't follow procedure because he didn't want the police officer to be indicted.



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Originally posted by: jatki99
Mal said
"Yes, under the normal rules of a grand jury proceeding that is what the law requires the prosecutor to do. Namely, only present evidence that supports the indictment not evidence that makes the indictment less likely. The role of the grand jury is not to determine guilt or innocence of the accused it is to simply determine if there is probable cause. What this prosecutor did was said fuck going to trial I am going to put a stop to this for my buddies in blue. I am going to hold a trial in the grand jury proceeding where I control the whole show to get the result I want for my buddies on the police force.

You're saying he should withold evidence to get an indictment then? Please tell me then exactly how thsis testimony should be presented to the jury and how was it actually presented?

"..he was down on his knees and then I saw the policeman shoot him in the back of the head"

I know you can't say how it was exactly presented because you weren't there and that's why I think you're doing a lot of assuming in how things were handled. I see it as he(the pros.) did a thorough job in handling of the case. Bending over nackward in his explanation of the proceeding even.
I still wholeheartedly disagree that he was shooting for no indictment from the beginning or trying to protect the "boys in blue", no way in hell.

I believe I see what you're saying now but I don't agree so we'll just leave it at that my friend.


It doesn't appear to be as cut and dried as you are saying it is...

Do prosecutors present evidence that helps a defendant in grand juries?

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Originally posted by: malibber2
Yes as far the grand jury proceeding goes he isn't supposed to introduce evidence that proves the accused may be innocent that is not the role of a prosecutor or a grand jury in our legal system. When it moves to the trial phase the prosecutor cannot withhold evidence that indicates the defendant may be innocent. He has to turn that over to the suspect's defense attorney and it is the defense attorney's job to present that evidence to the trial jury.

You can disagree with me all you want, but that is how the procedure is supposed to work. The prosecutor didn't follow procedure because he didn't want the police officer to be indicted.



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Originally posted by: jatki99
Mal said
"Yes, under the normal rules of a grand jury proceeding that is what the law requires the prosecutor to do. Namely, only present evidence that supports the indictment not evidence that makes the indictment less likely. The role of the grand jury is not to determine guilt or innocence of the accused it is to simply determine if there is probable cause. What this prosecutor did was said fuck going to trial I am going to put a stop to this for my buddies in blue. I am going to hold a trial in the grand jury proceeding where I control the whole show to get the result I want for my buddies on the police force.

You're saying he should withold evidence to get an indictment then? Please tell me then exactly how thsis testimony should be presented to the jury and how was it actually presented?

"..he was down on his knees and then I saw the policeman shoot him in the back of the head"

I know you can't say how it was exactly presented because you weren't there and that's why I think you're doing a lot of assuming in how things were handled. I see it as he(the pros.) did a thorough job in handling of the case. Bending over nackward in his explanation of the proceeding even.
I still wholeheartedly disagree that he was shooting for no indictment from the beginning or trying to protect the "boys in blue", no way in hell.

I believe I see what you're saying now but I don't agree so we'll just leave it at that my friend.


It's all about sour grapes with mal. Something doesn't go his way so he makes wild unsupportable claims about the prosecutor, the system, me, and even the supreme court. And isn't that typical of the loony left these days, where Obama makes them all look stupid almost every day of the year.

Had the decision gone the other way, mal would be praising the system, the prosecutor, and maybe even Justice Scalia. He might even have thrown in a compliment or two on the most race-driven white-hater of our time: Eric Holder.
After reading bobs link mal, and as I said before I think you're doing A LOT of assuming in how it was handled.
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