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Full Tilt Poker was Ponzi Scheme (according to Justice Department)

malibber
malibber
Sep 20, 2011
3:16am
Block User
Interesting read they owed 390 million to players, but apparently couldn’t survive if as little as 6 million dollars was cashed out. A couple of big name players appear to be in big trouble.

Full Tilt Story
snidely333
snidely333
Sep 20, 2011
4:15am
Block User
Them bastards still owe me $2.48.
Joe K
Joe K
Sep 20, 2011
4:51am
Block User
Another article below - this is an incredible story.

I suspect people like Ferguson and Lederer didn't know completely what they were mixed up in...

Article here
malibber
malibber
Sep 20, 2011
5:27am
Block User
According to the various stories and the DOJ itself they were in on it:


Four of its directors, Raymond Bitar, Howard Lederer, Christopher Ferguson and Rafael Furst, were paid from player funds since 2007, Bharara said.

https://www.businessweek.com/news/2011-09-20/full-tilt-used-poker-player-money-to-pay-board-u-s-alleges.html

Quote
Originally posted by: Joe K
Another article below - this is an incredible story.

I suspect people like Ferguson and Lederer didn't know completely what they were mixed up in...

Article here



Joe K
Joe K
Sep 20, 2011
9:59am
Block User
Just because they were paid doesn't mean they necessarily knew that the money was coming directly from the player's accounts.

It looks bad, but I still suspect Lederer and Ferguson were not fully aware of what was going on at Full Tilt. We shall see what the investigation and trial (if there is one) turn up.
snidely333
snidely333
Sep 20, 2011
11:00am
Block User
The complaint also maintains that the aforementioned board members are liable to the government "in an amount that is no less than $40,954,781.53 for Bitar; $41,856,010.92 million for Lederer; $25 million for Ferguson; and $11,706,323.96 million for Furst."

Wonder why Ferguson's amount is rounded but the other guys are down to the penny.
billryan
billryan
Sep 20, 2011
11:02am
Block User
Quote
Originally posted by: Joe K
Just because they were paid doesn't mean they necessarily knew that the money was coming directly from the player's accounts.

It looks bad, but I still suspect Lederer and Ferguson were not fully aware of what was going on at Full Tilt. We shall see what the investigation and trial (if there is one) turn up.


If they were on the Board of directors, they certainly should have known what was going on. They were legally responsible for the actions of the company, and had to have known the state of its finances. If not, they were negilgent in their duties.
If Full Tilt is subject to Sarbanes- Oxley, those guys are screwed bigtime.

chefantwon
chefantwon
Sep 20, 2011
11:39am
Block User
Quote
Originally posted by: billryan
Quote
Originally posted by: Joe K
Just because they were paid doesn't mean they necessarily knew that the money was coming directly from the player's accounts.

It looks bad, but I still suspect Lederer and Ferguson were not fully aware of what was going on at Full Tilt. We shall see what the investigation and trial (if there is one) turn up.


If they were on the Board of directors, they certainly should have known what was going on. They were legally responsible for the actions of the company, and had to have known the state of its finances. If not, they were negilgent in their duties.
If Full Tilt is subject to Sarbanes- Oxley, those guys are screwed bigtime.


Nyet, Full Tilt is not a US corporation. Hence, SOX regs don't apply.


Didn't Tilt get ripped off for the tune of $300 mil or so last year????
Joe K
Joe K
Sep 20, 2011
1:48pm
Block User
Quote
Originally posted by: billryan
Quote
Originally posted by: Joe K
Just because they were paid doesn't mean they necessarily knew that the money was coming directly from the player's accounts.

It looks bad, but I still suspect Lederer and Ferguson were not fully aware of what was going on at Full Tilt. We shall see what the investigation and trial (if there is one) turn up.


If they were on the Board of directors, they certainly should have known what was going on. They were legally responsible for the actions of the company, and had to have known the state of its finances. If not, they were negilgent in their duties.
If Full Tilt is subject to Sarbanes- Oxley, those guys are screwed bigtime.


"Should have known" is asking a lot at times, particularly with multi-million dollar corporations.

Have you ever seen what a quarterly statement looks like? I imagine once you get past the lawyers and the accountants not too many people can figure out what the hell all the numbers mean.
billryan
billryan
Sep 20, 2011
4:16pm
Block User
Quote
Originally posted by: Joe K
Quote
Originally posted by: billryan
Quote
Originally posted by: Joe K
Just because they were paid doesn't mean they necessarily knew that the money was coming directly from the player's accounts.

It looks bad, but I still suspect Lederer and Ferguson were not fully aware of what was going on at Full Tilt. We shall see what the investigation and trial (if there is one) turn up.


If they were on the Board of directors, they certainly should have known what was going on. They were legally responsible for the actions of the company, and had to have known the state of its finances. If not, they were negilgent in their duties.
If Full Tilt is subject to Sarbanes- Oxley, those guys are screwed bigtime.


"Should have known" is asking a lot at times, particularly with multi-million dollar corporations.




Have you ever seen what a quarterly statement looks like? I imagine once you get past the lawyers and the accountants not too many people can figure out what the hell all the numbers mean.


Its the job of the B.O.D to not only understand those statements but to make sure they are accurate.
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