Vegas Free-for-All - Governor Pence finally did it (POL)

Governor Pence finally did it (POL)

Boilerman

Apr 2, 2015
10:18pm

Twisting the facts and lying again I see. Isn't the Liberal stance strong enough to discuss things truthfully? Apparently not.

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Originally posted by: forkushV

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Originally posted by: snidely333
Quote
Originally posted by: malibber2
Quote
Originally posted by: alanleroy
Here is my question: In a state that has no 'Religious Freedom' law, can a gay couple successfully sue the Catholic (or name your flavor) Church because it refuses to perform marriage services for gay couples? If not, why not?

Is this a church/state first amendment issue applied only to recognized churches but not to businesses or to individuals? Does it apply to services offered by church owned businesses like Hospitals and Medical Centers and Universities?

The Catholic Church can and has refused to marry people for hundreds of years for a variety of reasons and they can continue to do so. This was never even an issue.

When you get to a church owned businesses like a hospital it gets to be a trickier issue. Is the hospital a profit or non-profit enterprise and does the hospital accept state or federal taxpayer funding? If they do it generally it means they have to be willing to serve all taxpayers for services they normally provide.

What about individual employees of said taxpayer funded hospital? What if a doctor or nurse doesn't want to care for a gay patient based on their religious beliefs?

Or patients who are adulterers? Or who take the Lord's name in vain? Or who wear blended fabrics? Or who have tattoos? Or who worship graven images? Or who need psych drugs (Scientology)? Or women who don't wear a burqa?

Ain't religious freedom great?

snidely333

Apr 3, 2015
12:50am

Block User

Quote

Originally posted by: Boilerman
Twisting the facts and lying again I see. Isn't the Liberal stance strong enough to discuss things truthfully? Apparently not.

Quote
Originally posted by: forkushV
Quote
Originally posted by: snidely333
Quote
Originally posted by: malibber2
Quote
Originally posted by: alanleroy
Here is my question: In a state that has no 'Religious Freedom' law, can a gay couple successfully sue the Catholic (or name your flavor) Church because it refuses to perform marriage services for gay couples? If not, why not?

Is this a church/state first amendment issue applied only to recognized churches but not to businesses or to individuals? Does it apply to services offered by church owned businesses like Hospitals and Medical Centers and Universities?

The Catholic Church can and has refused to marry people for hundreds of years for a variety of reasons and they can continue to do so. This was never even an issue.

When you get to a church owned businesses like a hospital it gets to be a trickier issue. Is the hospital a profit or non-profit enterprise and does the hospital accept state or federal taxpayer funding? If they do it generally it means they have to be willing to serve all taxpayers for services they normally provide.

What about individual employees of said taxpayer funded hospital? What if a doctor or nurse doesn't want to care for a gay patient based on their religious beliefs?
Or patients who are adulterers? Or who take the Lord's name in vain? Or who wear blended fabrics? Or who have tattoos? Or who worship graven images? Or who need psych drugs (Scientology)? Or women who don't wear a burqa?

Ain't religious freedom great?

It's a slippery slope once you allow people to discriminate on the basis of their religion.

esteskefauver

Apr 5, 2015
9:09am

Block User

Why can't a business owner refuse service to anyone he/she wants? Why must our constitutional rights end when we start a business? If someone is willing to risk their own money and wants to open a Ku Klux Klan store and serve only whites or someone wants to open a Black Panther store and serve only blacks they should have that right.

malibber2

Apr 5, 2015
2:27pm

Block User

Generally speaking if you open a business you have obtained a business license from the state the terms of which require that you do certain things like collect state and local sales tax. If your business is anything other than a proprietorship or simple partnership your business exists because you applied for and were granted a charter by the state.

Government in effect has created an artificial person for you which the Federal Government holds in such high esteem that it has granted your artificial construct rights in many respects that are superior to those of living breathing persons. Finally your business is connected to infrastructure that the taxpayers paid for sidewalks, roads, utility lines and so on.

Your business wouldn't exist without the taxpayers black, white, gay straight and every other flavor.

Quote

Originally posted by: esteskefauver
Why can't a business owner refuse service to anyone he/she wants? Why must our constitutional rights end when we start a business? If someone is willing to risk their own money and wants to open a Ku Klux Klan store and serve only whites or someone wants to open a Black Panther store and serve only blacks they should have that right.

alanleroy

Apr 5, 2015
8:44pm

Block User

Quote

Originally posted by: malibber2
Generally speaking if you open a business you have obtained a business license from the state the terms of which require that you do certain things like collect state and local sales tax. If your business is anything other than a proprietorship or simple partnership your business exists because you applied for and were granted a charter by the state.

Government in effect has created an artificial person for you which the Federal Government holds in such high esteem that it has granted your artificial construct rights in many respects that are superior to those of living breathing persons. Finally your business is connected to infrastructure that the taxpayers paid for sidewalks, roads, utility lines and so on.

Your business wouldn't exist without the taxpayers black, white, gay straight and every other flavor.

Quote
Originally posted by: esteskefauver
Why can't a business owner refuse service to anyone he/she wants? Why must our constitutional rights end when we start a business? If someone is willing to risk their own money and wants to open a Ku Klux Klan store and serve only whites or someone wants to open a Black Panther store and serve only blacks they should have that right.

ksucidlo

Apr 6, 2015
5:21am

Block User

Guess now they'll be putting the signs back up on drinking fountains and restrooms. I'm old enough to remember the "good ol days" and they weren't always all that good. I hate to see the backward steps we are taking in many arenas in the name of religion. I consider myself a spiritual person and I believe in God, but the God I worship was a forgiving and accepting God...He didn't discriminate...those are mortal man's actions. k

hoops2

Apr 6, 2015
5:30am

Block User

"Where is the language in the law that says business's don't have to serve gays?"

Nobody has answered the question?

Dan Svatass

Apr 6, 2015
8:27am

Block User

Quote

Originally posted by: hoops2
"Where is the language in the law that says business's don't have to serve gays?"

Nobody has answered the question?

Lots of us with the weakest of Google skills and a general understanding of American civil rights could show you exactly where in the law it says that "business's" [lol] don't have to serve gays."*

Your trouble is that none of us with such skills and that understanding respect you enough to bother.

And we know that, were we to show you, you'd be far too dim to realize it.

"Thank you, person with skills and an understanding, I now see why so many political, business, religious, and community leaders, including many GOP leaders,

find this law so appalling and anti-American" is a sentence you're simply not capable of.

But for others, I suggest this analysis, with particular attention to how the bill Gov. Pence signed defines "person" to include businesses.

+++++

*Because that's how laws read. Laws totally have sentences like "Business's don't have to serve gays." And "You pizzaria owners can't stuff your crusts with anthrax." And "Singers at Super Bowl halftime show mustn't show us their nipples. Or else!" You clearly have read laws and know how they are written! Good for you!

hoops2

Apr 6, 2015
9:29am

Block User

Nowhere does the law mention gays. The Jim Crow laws that this law has been compared to specifically mentioned blacks. There is a theory that it may exclude gays, but there weren't any court cases challenging it in Indiana or in any of the other 20 states that this law has been passed.

snidely333

Apr 6, 2015
9:38am

Block User

Quote

Originally posted by: hoops2
"Where is the language in the law that says business's don't have to serve gays?"

Nobody has answered the question?

What was the point of the law, then?

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