A Health Care System I Won't Miss

Quote

---

Originally posted by: hoops2
Under the rules one can sign up for the exchange as one is in the ambulance on the way to the hospital, so one can pay the penalty and only get the inurance when one has medical bills - another sure financial loser for the exchanges.

---

Quote

---

Originally posted by: forkushV

Quote

---

Originally posted by: DonDiego

Quote

---

Originally posted by: forkushV
DonDiego, dontcha hate it when people actually click on your links? From your source:

"The CBO did an admirable job of projecting the cost of this legislation as written."

You could have saved yourself a lot of typing by just saying that forky is telling the truth and that hoops is...fantasizing.

---

Not at all, . . . DonDiego posts links so that interested people can learn something.

Unfortunately some folks just skim through things to come up with something to reinforce their own propaganda. F'rinstance, forkushV does not quote the entire paragraph:
"When Congress inevitably fails to implement the Obama plan’s spending cuts, and expands its subsidies to more and more people, the cost of this legislation will grow beyond $3 trillion. The CBO did an admirable job of projecting the cost of this legislation as written. But the text of the legislation does not reflect the reality it would create."...

---

So you are saying saying the CBO forecast is bad because some future Congress and president may decide to modify it. Seriously?

---

Quote

---

Originally posted by: forkushV
So you are saying saying the CBO forecast is bad because some future Congress and president may decide to modify it. Seriously?

---

Quote

---

Originally posted by: DonDiego

Quote

---

Originally posted by: pjstroh
Don Diego has already been pointed to the math. Alas he didn't like the source. The CBO is not credible at measuring the financial ramifications of legislation in his eyes. But they concluded the net result is deficit reducing. Don Diego then defferred us to a report that scored a fictional health care system that is not law in any part of the known universe.

Don Diego writes:
"DonDiego supposes the cash resource generated by the $95 penalty-tax would be exhausted well before the last broken arm is set. "

So its up to our gentle readers to see decide has more insight into the math of the bill. People who sat down and scored the figures...or someone who is casually "suppossing" in this forum.

In either case we will know for certain what the math is when the law is fully implemented.

---

Item 1 - The Penalty Tax

OK, . . . so pjstroh doesn't want to show DonDiego the insurance math. The CBO did not actually do any statistical analysis on the insurance premiums vs costs; it just took whatever figures Congress gave it.

Not to put too fine a point on it, . . . but even though pjstroh said it is so, DonDiego doesn't really believe that the $95 penalty tax is designed to cover the emergency room care expenses of the uninsured. He'd like to verify it. [Hint as to DonDiego's skepticism: the tax-penalty is not $95.]

So, since pjstroh referenced the math at least tell poor old DonDiego where he found out that the $95 penalty-tax is supposed to cover emergency medical care for the uninsured. Whether there's math there or not.


Item 2 - The Young Invincibles
pjstroh writes: "In either case we will know for certain what the math is when the law is fully implemented."

Indeed, that is so.

But some folks have already done some of the math as to how Obamacare may fare:
"If the ObamaCare health insurance exchanges are to function properly, it is crucial that a substantial number of people ages 18-34 join them. This age group that is young and relatively healthy must purchase health insurance on the exchanges in order to "cross-subsidize" people who are older and sicker. Without the young and healthy, the exchanges will enter a "death spiral" where only the older and sicker participate and price of insurance premiums will increase precipitously.

This study finds that in 2014 many single people aged 18-34 who do not have children will have a substantial financial incentive to forego insurance on the exchanges and instead pay the individual mandate penalty of $95 or one percent of income. About 3.7 million of those ages 18-34 will be at least $500 better off if they forgo insurance and pay the penalty. More than 3 million will be $1,000 better off if they go the same route. This raises the likelihood that an insufficient number of young and healthy people will participate in the exchanges, thereby leading to a death spiral.

. . . when the young and healthy drop out of the "insurance pool", [t]his leads to "adverse selection" in which insurance is only attractive to those who are generally older and sicker. If the insurance pool comprises largely people who are older and sicker, then insurance prices will rise to cover their costs. That rate increase causes even more young and healthy people drop their insurance, leaving the pools even older and sicker than before, and so on."

. . . until i.collapse or ii.Government pays for everything.

Ref: The Young Invincibles

Right now those introducing Obamacare are very worried that there will be insufficient young folks buying the insurance, because it isn't in their financial interest. Before pjstroh and DonDiego "know for certain what the math is", DonDiego expects an all encompassing Government funded advertising campaign to convince young people that Obamacare is good for them. If the campaign fails, pjstroh and DonDiego will know math alone is insufficient for success.

---

Quote

---

Originally posted by: pjstroh

We know the math from the system Don Diego says we are better off with - life before Obamacare. In that system the uninsured PAID NOTHING into the system. In Obamacare they pay something. If Don Diego is concerned that the "something" isn't going to be enough to cover all the costs then perhaps ...just perhaps...it is a thoughtful concern. But then why on earth would he then advocate we have the uninsured pay nothing?

Don Diego wanted math. Here is some in its most basic form: "Something" is greater than "nothing".

---

Quote

---

Originally posted by: pjstroh

Quote

---

Originally posted by: DonDiego
So, since pjstroh referenced the math at least tell poor old DonDiego where he found out that the $95 penalty-tax is supposed to cover emergency medical care for the uninsured. Whether there's math there or not.

---

We know the math from the system Don Diego says we are better off with - life before Obamacare. In that system the uninsured PAID NOTHING into the system. In Obamacare they pay something. If Don Diego is concerned that the "something" isn't going to be enough to cover all the costs then perhaps ...just perhaps...it is a thoughtful concern. But then why on earth would he then advocate we have the uninsured pay nothing?

Don Diego wanted math. Here is some in its most basic form: "Something" is greater than "nothing".

---

Quote

---

Originally posted by: BobOrme
Bull! You and others have become so accustomed to insurance that you apparently have no idea that some people pay for their medical expenses out of their own pockets. I have for years. Up to and including surgery. It costs less than insurance! I have found a number of doctors who charge discounted rates when the patient is paying cash. They don't have to pay a staff member to process the insurance paperwork and they don't have to wait to be paid.

---

Quote

---

Originally posted by: BobOrme

Quote

---

Originally posted by: pjstroh

We know the math from the system Don Diego says we are better off with - life before Obamacare. In that system the uninsured PAID NOTHING into the system. In Obamacare they pay something. If Don Diego is concerned that the "something" isn't going to be enough to cover all the costs then perhaps ...just perhaps...it is a thoughtful concern. But then why on earth would he then advocate we have the uninsured pay nothing?

Don Diego wanted math. Here is some in its most basic form: "Something" is greater than "nothing".

---

Bull! You and others have become so accustomed to insurance that you apparently have no idea that some people pay for their medical expenses out of their own pockets. I have for years. Up to and including surgery. It costs less than insurance! I have found a number of doctors who charge discounted rates when the patient is paying cash. They don't have to pay a staff member to process the insurance paperwork and they don't have to wait to be paid.

---