Hello LVA

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Originally posted by: MoneyLA
Arc this is about the strategy for a team. It does not challenge your math.


Money, as I've told you before, the expected return for VP players is the average of the expected return of all the hands they play. A team is just a variation of multi-play. You get in more hands in less time. However, it does not change the math. Their expected return is the average of all the hands played by the team.

Once again you are just confusing yourself with trivial stuff that has no meaning. It doesn't matter if a seat is open or not. The math is still the same. Look at it this way. While the open seat creates a small chance the team will not win, it also means the team will have invested less in situations where they do win. It all averages out. Why ... because it is really, really simple math.

If the game is positive then the paytable is positive. You don't look at just part of the paytable. You need to look at the entire paytable.

Well after three big losses at Rincon that team has not returned despite other times when the progressive has grown.
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Originally posted by: MoneyLA
Well after three big losses at Rincon that team has not returned despite other times when the progressive has grown.


I see, reality consists of only what Money sees with his own eyes. Nothing else exists. Did you consider that the team may have found greener pastures? Just because the progressive at Rincon might be slightly positive does not mean it is the best play on the planet.

In any event, the experience of one person or one team does not change the math. Sorry if you can't understand such a simple concept.

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Originally posted by: arcimedes
Quote

Originally posted by: MoneyLA
Well after three big losses at Rincon that team has not returned despite other times when the progressive has grown.


I see, reality consists of only what Money sees with his own eyes. Nothing else exists. Did you consider that the team may have found greener pastures? Just because the progressive at Rincon might be slightly positive does not mean it is the best play on the planet.

In any event, the experience of one person or one team does not change the math. Sorry if you can't understand such a simple concept.


To be honest, I put a lot of weight in what I see. I was told the "team" took a big hit over those three outings. The $70K was won by a guy from Vegas, the $50k was one by a lady from San Diego who kept playing and about an hour later hit another royal for about $21K. I hit the 37K just after they checked in and were walking through the high limit area to check out the meter on the progressive.

I guess this particular team was on ... what would you call it... the wrong side of variance? I guess Ive been on the wrong side of variance too since Ive now played more than 92,000 hands of VP this year without a royal.

Anyway, I look forward to reading Frank's response about playing for a progressive when a team cannot lock up all the seats and the progressive could be hit from a non team member. I'd like to know if that affects their willingness to play machines with such a bad paytable as those at the M.

edited to add: Do me favor, Arc, let Frank tell me his answer. He is a team player, organizer. I want to know his feeling about this. There's nohing to debate or argue here. If he's willing to accept the risk that his team won't hit now that the M has added ten more seats and he's playing a poor paytable, I will accept that as his way of doing business. He knows best -- it's his business. I'm just curious. Or course Arc, you know all the answers so you are curious about nothing. And I don't recall you saying that you played or organized teams either.
Quote

Originally posted by: MoneyLA
Quote

Originally posted by: arcimedes
Quote

Originally posted by: MoneyLA
Well after three big losses at Rincon that team has not returned despite other times when the progressive has grown.


I see, reality consists of only what Money sees with his own eyes. Nothing else exists. Did you consider that the team may have found greener pastures? Just because the progressive at Rincon might be slightly positive does not mean it is the best play on the planet.

In any event, the experience of one person or one team does not change the math. Sorry if you can't understand such a simple concept.


To be honest, I put a lot of weight in what I see. I was told the "team" took a big hit over those three outings. The $70K was won by a guy from Vegas, the $50k was one by a lady from San Diego who kept playing and about an hour later hit another royal for about $21K. I hit the 37K just after they checked in and were walking through the high limit area to check out the meter on the progressive.

I guess this particular team was on ... what would you call it... the wrong side of variance? I guess Ive been on the wrong side of variance too since Ive now played more than 92,000 hands of VP this year without a royal.

Anyway, I look forward to reading Frank's response about playing for a progressive when a team cannot lock up all the seats and the progressive could be hit from a non team member. I'd like to know if that affects their willingness to play machines with such a bad paytable as those at the M.

edited to add: Do me favor, Arc, let Frank tell me his answer. He is a team player, organizer. I want to know his feeling about this. There's nohing to debate or argue here. If he's willing to accept the risk that his team won't hit now that the M has added ten more seats and he's playing a poor paytable, I will accept that as his way of doing business. He knows best -- it's his business. I'm just curious. Or course Arc, you know all the answers so you are curious about nothing. And I don't recall you saying that you played or organized teams either.


Nicely done Money
Money is too classy to say it, so I will.
Hey Archie, STFU! Mind your business.
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Originally posted by: KayPea
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Originally posted by: BAGIANT
my son bought Singers book and started playing his system.


How long ago was that? Does he still play the system?
If so, how's he doing lately? If not, why not?

Have you ever tried Singer's system after seeing you're son's success?
If so, how did you do? If not, why not?



Pretty lame answer Bag's that you can only name your son as an example. If Singer's system is so great where are all those big winner's out there? We would all love to hear from you.
I just took a break from doing show prep and saw all these new posts. I will not have time to draft any answers until tomorrow. The hard part is keeping it math light and using real world examples to explain things. I hope everyone will find the information useful. I'm glad their is so much chatter on this subject as it makes me feel the time I'm spending on this will be worth it.
I'll add to the chatter...Just suppose that instead of competing against a handful of players at M for the jackpot, the same game was linked on the Internet and there are a million players going for the same jackpot...so the chance of your team hitting the jackpot before someone else is almost zero. Would you still play the game?
You guys might be surprised at what Im writing here... but I read Singer's two books and there is very LITTLE info in the books about how he plays his system and what his system involves... and this is why I did the videos and interviews with him. The books really tell his story but don't tell his system. Nor do they explain his special plays. The books are more philosophical than instructional.
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