Hello LVA

Thanks Frank. Im curious about your "more time same money" scenario. What does this do the team's income, and the cost of the team if there is a "team owner" who is paying his players $10 an hour? Do you have a formula for "missed royals" because a non team member hit it? How does that affect your bankroll requirements? Certainly you want to control your costs and maximize your revenue stream?

I'm also curious about your figure of a royal in 32,000 hands. How do you determine that?

First you should know that the Owner/Employee model of teams is dead. The dissemination of VP information in the mid nighties eliminated the availability of people willing to work for $10 an hour when they knew they were making you $100 an hour. Now what is common is coalitions of equal partners. I am part of a 6 man "group" and that's about the largest around in Vegas. Nothing like the 100 player monsters of yesteryear.

As to your question on "missed royals". We don't have a formula for "missed royals" because we never miss them. We get exactly the same number we would have FOR HANDS PLAYED. Competition just slows us down. I know it's really hard to understand with linear thinking.

You spend your entire day in a world of cause and effect and relatedness making you ill-prepared to understand independent random events. I recommend the book "Randomness" I mentioned in my previous post. It may clear up things for you.

Without knowing what you don't know, you'd have no way to know you didn't know it.

~FK

If run most payables on a VP trainer at progressive numbers, JoB based games come out to slightly over 32,000 hands to hit a Royal.

Very good Frank. Now the key question: With 20 chairs at the M, would you rather have a team filling all 20 chairs are you content with your six man team?

Thanks for the inside info on a team.

Money, what part of

"In the fullness of time we will still average 1 Royal for every 32,000 hands we play. Our losses to hit that Royal will be identical to what they would have been without competition (what happens on other machines does not effect our machines—just like the mythical bar in above story). And our profit margin will be unaffected on that Jackpot. We may get less Jackpots, and it may take longer to hit them because of competition, but the per JP profit is unaffected. MORE TIME - SAME MONEY!"

did you fail to understand?

Gee Arc, everything Ive read says a royal in JOB comes about in 40,000 hands. First time I ever saw 32,000 unless they play to "push the royals." Can you explain that for me?

I understand all the rest of it just fine. But in my business -- and every other business I know -- the goal is: LESS TIME - SAME MONEY

Thanks.

oops. edited to add: the goal really should be LESS TIME - MORE MONEY. Silly me.

And, at a certain point, if there are excessive competitors to the business model, it no longer becomes viable. Not because you lose money but because there are other ways to make More Money - Same Time.

I believe that Mr. Kneeland plays progressives almost exclusively. So when the meter is high enough, he will hold otherwise foolish cards, such as Ace-Ten suited, resulting in more royals more often.

And makes a poor paytable even poorer...

But not all businesses are the same, now are they. You can't force RFs to happen although you can adjust strategies (as above) to reduce the average number of hands. In addition, you can't force a progressive to be positive. You have to wait.

Believe me, Frank and other players do everything they can (like playing two machines) to reduce the time. But, just like your current losing streak, there is only so much you can do while the reality of randomness works its magic.

Thanks Frank. Ummm.... I mean Arc.