Hello LVA

Thanks.

There's another benefit of research into beliefs divergent from our own that I did not mention directly. It gives us greater empathy and understanding of others...a useful tool for all non-hermit-island-dwellers.

~FK

Frank,

You and I have chatted recently on the subject of Singer, not so much his system but his personality. I implore you to look at all the details of Singer's systems and then scientifically and mathmatically dismantle them. I'm talking about everything he does and talks about: progressive denominations, RTT and ARTT, disregard for pay tables, neglect of expected return by special plays, 5th card flip-overs, all of it. And once you come to your results, which I expect to be similar to what most of us have summerized, I would like you to post a thread on this forum explaining in detail your results and the reasons behind them. At that time as well, I think Anthony Curtis should allow Singer back in to post on this forum, not under an alias or through Alan's Bestbuys or Bagiant, etc, but by himself. I expect some of your results to be positive for Singer, such as using freeplay and setting reasonable win/loss parameters. I also expect some very negative results as well, most to do with risk of ruin for small win goals, poor play strategies, and unproven gaffed machines. What I'm looking for is to see how the hate and vile from Mr Singer becomes focused when an innocent, neutral bystander like yourself, Frank, exposes him.

I can be wrong here, you may find Singer's system to be the fountain of video poker glory. I doubt it though. I know it's a sham, but I'll be as open-minded as possible during your research Frank. Good luck.


-Mule

You know of all the people in the world to do something like this I'm just about the least suited to it. I do not like to disprove anyone about anything. I don't even play games against people, because I do not enjoy winning. For me the feeling of beating someone at something is horrible...oh and I don't like to lose either. Kinda takes all the fun out of games huh? I win, I feel bad. I lose, I feel bad. Now that really is the kobayashi maru no win scenario.

I will do my best to evaluate the Singer system, it may take me a while. I wouldn't want to do this at all unless I do it well.

And let's be clear, my goal is not to disprove Mr. Singer. My goal is to do research. That's how good science is done. One tries not to go into it if one feels they already know the answer.

~FK

Good work Frank.

I would expect nothing less from you.

Also great reference from Star Trek 2:The Wrath of Khan!!!

But Kirk did beat it...he found a solution where no solution was intended to exist.


-Mule

damule, I think that's an excellent idea.

but I think you should be open to a couple of things that I believe you will learn.

First, "disregard for pay tables." Singer does not disregard pay tables. he wants to play the best pay tables available. He has commented that he has won on lesser paytables, but given a choice between a lesser pay table and a better one, he will choose the better.

Second, "neglect of expected return by special plays." He is very open that his special plays have a lower expected return. He doesnt dispute the math of the game. He simply says that sometimes you have to go against the math -- to take your chance -- to score a win. Gamblers do this all the time, but Singer has written about it and gives us examples of when to do it in VP. In craps, players frequently will bet the horn, the field, even a straight up Yo. These are long shots. Players know they are long shots. Singer has written out some guidelines for when to take long shots in Video Poker.

Third, "5th card flip-overs." I spent two days with Singer and while he claims to have a belief that the games are not truly random he has never commented on using this belief in his strategy. Look, we all have faith that the games are not rigged. And Im sure Singer also hopes the games are not rigged when he's feeding his $100 bills into the machine.

Overall, I think the idea of an independent, respected person commenting is a very, very good idea. But what do you expect the "independent" to say? I'll make a prediction: Singer's system does not follow the traditional plays or the stated math of the game. Play at your own risk.

Welcome Frank !!!!

Welcome Azhotmommie !!!!


Post often.

Rick

I intend to approach the Rob Singer system evaluation exactly like I would any scientific experiment. First I will learn as much as I can about it. Then I will formulate theories for and against. Next I will design experiments, run them and accumulate data. Lastly I will publish my data for peer review and we can all formulate conclusions together.

I ask that we all stick to the facts for this exercise and table any discussion of character or personal grudges, NO MATTER WHAT THEY ARE. Someone's personality should not enter into a scientific discussion on their scientific theories. I'm sure you are all familiar with the well known fact that Isac Newton was a major jerk and died a virgin. He still had one or two ideas that turned out to be moderately useful.

If you want me all to do this, I expect both sides to behave well (at least temporarily), or I'll be forced to recuse myself.

I'll also be wanting help in data accumulation and experimental design. I should have a rough draft of my study outline in about a week. I will submit it for approval and review before going ahead.

As I said in my previous post, any conclusion true or false would be very interesting to me and I believe lead to useful revelations. I would love to discover new ways of making more money in casinos. I would also love to discover insight into human reasoning. It would be hard to pick which would be better, so in this, I guess I am just about as impartial, independent and neutral as they come.

Keep me honest and please point out anywhere where you think I might be biased. As I discussed on my last radio show, it is almost never possible to spot one's own biases. That's why they call them biases.

~FK

Does anyone know what ICON formats work for uploading my picture? I used a 3k jpeg and it doesn't display.

Yup, so when are you going to start "looking into" Singer?

You see, some of us have ALREADY done it. I've analyzed his system completely. I've analyzed the man. He's admitted he lost a 6 figure inheritance gambling. He's known to have filed bankruptcy. He's known to slam anyone who has been successful at VP. He clearly has NPD. I've caught him in literally 100s of lies.

Let me know when you catch up.

I would not support that diagnosis. NPD is characterized by a desire to see yourself through the eyes of others positively. People with classic NPD are often people pleasers. Rob seems quite willing to stand up for what he believes, even if it makes him look bad.

If we are going to accuse anyone of having NPD I would be the more likely candidate.

If Rob is a sufferer of mental issues, it is unlikely that NPD is an accurate or at least complete description. But more importantly, if Rob was (and I'm not saying he is) burdened with a diagnosable psychological condition would not our primary concern be to help him. There are a lot of people in the world with mental problems, getting upset at them serves no useful goal. Only through understanding and empathy can we effect positive change in this discussion and the world in general.

Mud-slinging only gets both sides dirty, often the side tossing the mud more so than the target.

If as you say you believe Rob to have mental issues, then excessively negative talk about him is essentially kicking a disabled person. I prefer to help them across the street. It seems like you have strong opinions on what is wrong with Rob. If you do, try to focus on the whys not the whats.

I was furious with a kid named Brian Carington in high-school for punching me in the nose. Then I found out his mother was a heroin addicted prostitute and his father had been in jail 3 times for abusing him both physically and sexually. Guess what, I stopped being mad at the kid. After a little work and sharing my lunch a couple of times we even started to get along. He never became anyone I wanted to hang out with, but the time I took to get to know him has given me lifelong insight I never would have gotten anywhere else.

I will be very interested in conferring with you on the important subject at hand, Rob's system. I'm at least a week away from drafting my evaluation outline.

I know you have history, but I'm asking as a favor to me to shelve it temporarily.

I have no personal goals with this task, I'm doing it just for fun. If it stops being fun, I'll bail. I do not like or need conflict in my life even if it's not directed at me. It's like being in the room when your parents are fighting...not a pleasant feeling.

~FK