Vegas Free-for-All - I just read Bob Dancer's Jan 25th column

I just read Bob Dancer's Jan 25th column

fedomalley

Feb 4, 2011
10:02pm

Quote

Originally posted by: melbedewy

Quote
Yeah, that's why he went bust as a VP "pro" in Vegas and had to move back to sunny Minnesotta with his tail between his legs and take advantage of those always lucrative and generous Indian casinos in Minnesotta.

You spew the same stuff over and over without support....you're like a broken record of Singer. You also discredit yourself when you talk like a "math guy" but then lump all of the successful ones like Dancer and Arci as being charlatans.

I know that this will be a strange concept but why don't you sober up and stick to the facts? Contribute and even disagree if that's your position but do so in a way that makes you credible.

"I'll take that $8 an hour (actually $5 given the leisurely way I play) to enjoy a no lose game with free luxury rooms, food comps,etc. plus the joys of the casino atmosphere and the pleasure of free top shelf booooooooze 10 days out of ten over being some fake name con man A hole paying $90K for a $40K car-and then having to pay 35% to the IRS for the car"

Sorry, but you're going to have to do the math for me on this one. If your earn is $5/hr., are you playing like 500 hands per hour? That's $625 coin in per hour and even allowing for your propensity not to view this as work, let me give you the benefit and say that you're slugging it out for 8 hours a day. I'm dying to know where the luxury rooms and food comps are coming from on $5K/day coin in on a 100% plus game....you may just have the solution to the homelessness problem plaguing this country. Sorry, but you're just not credible.

I get it....the math only works if you play single line quarters....if you play for higher stakes and are successful, you're a fraud. Right?

alanleroy

Feb 4, 2011
11:40pm

Block User

Quote

Originally posted by: fedomalley

3. The house doesn't need a shill in vp. The difference in live poker is obvious. The players bank the game and the house gets a rake. The more players, the more tables, the more rake. This isn't the case with vp...the house expects to win the inherent game return PLUS cost of errors, incompetent play, etc. This explains why there are some 9/6 JoB games where a certain casino calculates their theo at 7.5%.

I know for a fact they used to have shills in Baccarat games (Stardust 1978). They didn't 'need' to have shills. They were beautiful women that would play with house money through the night trying to get high rollers into the Baccarat pit and then pump their bets.

Again, I am just wondering if it's legal to have a shill playing VP with house money. If it's legal in Baccarat, why not VP? In the case of contests, it would possibly be fraud...but that may depend on how the 'shill' law is written.

Having your player win the car could present some 'difficulties'. Getting someone to pump up the coin-in with house money would clearly be unethical and would trash the casino's reputation if caught. I know the Stardust in 1978 would much rather have killed someone than cheated them....unless a lot of money was involved. Then, all bets were off.

snidely333

Feb 5, 2011
12:34am

Block User

Poker and baccarat are social games. VP is not.

alanleroy

Feb 5, 2011
1:18am

Block User

Like you've never offered to buy a neighbor's hand.

snidely333

Feb 5, 2011
2:23am

Block User

Playing VP is like peeing in a public restroom. You don't strike up conversations with a stranger while you're standing at the urinals and you don't do it playing VP. Now, a cute woman standing next to your urinal is another situation.

tomdoug

Feb 5, 2011
2:38am

Block User

Quote

Originally posted by: arcimedes

Quote
Originally posted by: chefantwon
I'll get some comps given upon how many times I can get to Vegas. However, I just don't have the millions needed to be an advantage player.

The vast majority of of advantage players do not have millions either. But, obviously they know and understand math a LOT better than you or moneyla.

If it takes so long to win using AP then why have I won 8 years in a row? No, it's not luck ... I was below expectation for 6 of those 8 years. You guys really should take a course in statistics or, God forbid, quit making ridiculous statements about things you don't understand.

Your so full of shit, Yes you do have a positive EV when seated at the right VP machine, but that positive EV is over the LIFE of the machine, and nobody is that lucky.
Take your "understanding math" and shove it.

alanleroy

Feb 5, 2011
3:16am

Block User

Quote

Originally posted by: snidely333
Now, a cute woman standing next to your urinal is another situation.

Restroom shills?

RoadTrip

Feb 5, 2011
4:14am

Block User

Quote

Originally posted by: fedomalley

Quote
Originally posted by: melbedewy

Sorry, but you're going to have to do the math for me on this one. If your earn is $5/hr., are you playing like 500 hands per hour? That's $625 coin in per hour and even allowing for your propensity not to view this as work, let me give you the benefit and say that you're slugging it out for 8 hours a day. I'm dying to know where the luxury rooms and food comps are coming from on $5K/day coin in on a 100% plus game....you may just have the solution to the homelessness problem plaguing this country. Sorry, but you're just not credible.

I get it....the math only works if you play single line quarters....if you play for higher stakes and are successful, you're a fraud. Right?

The Western.
That much play would qualify anyone as a "whale". Just think of all the comps they'd throw at someone giving that kind of action.
Oh, wait, the Western closed their hotel rooms.
Never mind.

melbedewy

Feb 5, 2011
5:54am

Block User

Quote

Originally posted by: tomdoug

Quote
Originally posted by: arcimedes
Quote
Originally posted by: chefantwon
I'll get some comps given upon how many times I can get to Vegas. However, I just don't have the millions needed to be an advantage player.

The vast majority of of advantage players do not have millions either. But, obviously they know and understand math a LOT better than you or moneyla.

If it takes so long to win using AP then why have I won 8 years in a row? No, it's not luck ... I was below expectation for 6 of those 8 years. You guys really should take a course in statistics or, God forbid, quit making ridiculous statements about things you don't understand.

Why do you think this "pro" took a one way trip from LV to a VP wasteland-America's Siberia of Minnesota.

arcimedes

Feb 5, 2011
6:27am

Block User

Quote

Originally posted by: redietz
Arc, I just want to point out that in cases where the NGC found out, and the casino found out, and it made the Associated Press, not much happened. The casino paid a fine and, a couple of weeks later, nobody even remembered which one it was. These incidents always wind up being reported as insulated from high management, and the middle management folks are reprimanded or fired, and then a month later they have better positions at a Native American casino (true story, by the way).

So, no, it wouldn't be "disastrous." In fact, it would have a negligible effect. That, unfortunately, is the reality. Arc, you have the math down pat and I love you for being a calm and reasonable influence -- but when you speculate about real-world consequences, you're a bit off base.

IIRC, the one incidence was a situation where the casino was actually making high end players have a better chance (or maybe there was more than one situation). Here we are talking about high end players. So, I don't think I'm the one off-base when discussing this situation. Casinos would not cheat their high end players. It would be stupid.

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