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Income Inequality

forkushV
forkushV
May 10, 2016
2:50am
Block User
Quote
Originally posted by: alanleroyII
Quote
Originally posted by: forkushV
Quote
Originally posted by: alanleroyII
Quote
Originally posted by: forkushV
Quote
Originally posted by: alanleroyII
Quote
Originally posted by: forkushV
Quote
Originally posted by: CowboyKell
Quote
Originally posted by: forkushV
Yep 1929 was bad.

But then we elected a socialist president, and re-elected him three more times. Things got better.


Calling Roosevelt a socialist by todays standards is a stretch at best.

Why was he so popular? Was it the SEC? the Wagner act? The FDIC? HELL NO, it was the repeal of prohibition!

I will give him my greatest praise for the CCC, you know, the program where men HAD TO WORK to relive them from poverty.

Would his programs had continued to work if it had not been for WWII? Very unlikely.
Back when I was a kid old Democrats would claim that Roosevelt's New Deal programs rescued us from the Great Depression and old Republicans would claim that it was World War II that finally defeated the Great Depression.

Without realizing it, what both sides agreed upon was that it was government stimulus spending that did the trick. Government make-work jobs, whether from the New Deal or the from the war, jump started the economy into recovery and then into growth.

It sounds like you agree with that, CowboyKell. So in the primary, are you voting for Bernie or Hillary?
...“A few years ago, Moody’s, the financial investment agency, calculated that every $1 of federal money invested in improving the infrastructure for highways and public schools would generate $1.44 back to the economy,” Trump writes in his offensively titled campaign book. “On the federal level, this is going to be an expensive investment, no question about that. But in the long run it will more than pay for itself.” ...
Dang! Look below at what I posted on this forum two-and-a-half years ago. (The bottom line shows Moody's estimate of bang for the buck from infrastructure spending.)

Do you think Trump lurks here?

There is increasing evidence that the multiplier effect is greatly reduced based on public debt to GDP ratios...
Dude, the primo economists who came to that conclusion had their results turned upside down when five major errors were found in their Excel spreadsheet. .
There have been multiple studies on this. Were they all 'turned upside down'? My view is that the Marginal Propensity to Consume has changed as people have increased their personal debt. Instead of buying stuff, they are making payments on stuff they've already bought...
I agree. But your claim about public debt is bullshit because Excel errors. Low growth causes public debt, not the other way around.
alanleroyII
alanleroyII
May 10, 2016
3:02am
Block User
Quote
Originally posted by: forkushV
Quote
Originally posted by: alanleroyII
Quote
Originally posted by: forkushV
Quote
Originally posted by: alanleroyII
Quote
Originally posted by: forkushV
Quote
Originally posted by: alanleroyII
Quote
Originally posted by: forkushV
Quote
Originally posted by: CowboyKell
Quote
Originally posted by: forkushV
Yep 1929 was bad.

But then we elected a socialist president, and re-elected him three more times. Things got better.


Calling Roosevelt a socialist by todays standards is a stretch at best.

Why was he so popular? Was it the SEC? the Wagner act? The FDIC? HELL NO, it was the repeal of prohibition!

I will give him my greatest praise for the CCC, you know, the program where men HAD TO WORK to relive them from poverty.

Would his programs had continued to work if it had not been for WWII? Very unlikely.
Back when I was a kid old Democrats would claim that Roosevelt's New Deal programs rescued us from the Great Depression and old Republicans would claim that it was World War II that finally defeated the Great Depression.

Without realizing it, what both sides agreed upon was that it was government stimulus spending that did the trick. Government make-work jobs, whether from the New Deal or the from the war, jump started the economy into recovery and then into growth.

It sounds like you agree with that, CowboyKell. So in the primary, are you voting for Bernie or Hillary?
...“A few years ago, Moody’s, the financial investment agency, calculated that every $1 of federal money invested in improving the infrastructure for highways and public schools would generate $1.44 back to the economy,” Trump writes in his offensively titled campaign book. “On the federal level, this is going to be an expensive investment, no question about that. But in the long run it will more than pay for itself.” ...
Dang! Look below at what I posted on this forum two-and-a-half years ago. (The bottom line shows Moody's estimate of bang for the buck from infrastructure spending.)

Do you think Trump lurks here?

There is increasing evidence that the multiplier effect is greatly reduced based on public debt to GDP ratios...
Dude, the primo economists who came to that conclusion had their results turned upside down when five major errors were found in their Excel spreadsheet. .
There have been multiple studies on this. Were they all 'turned upside down'? My view is that the Marginal Propensity to Consume has changed as people have increased their personal debt. Instead of buying stuff, they are making payments on stuff they've already bought...
I agree. But your claim about public debt is bullshit because Excel errors. Low growth causes public debt, not the other way around.
Spending more than you take in causes public debt. Duh. It has nothing to do with growth rates and every thing to do with politicians wanting to dole out borrowed money that no one has to pay for....for awhile.

In the words of Candidate Obama...

“The problem is, is that the way Bush has done it over the last eight years is to take out a credit card from the Bank of China in the name of our children, driving up our national debt from $5 trillion dollars for the first 42 presidents — number 43 added $4 trillion dollars by his lonesome, so that we now have over $9 trillion dollars of debt that we are going to have to pay back — $30,000 for every man, woman and child.

That’s irresponsible. It’s unpatriotic.”


Boilerman
Boilerman
May 10, 2016
3:47am
Block User
It's unsustainable.


Quote
Originally posted by: alanleroyII
Quote
Originally posted by: forkushV
Quote
Originally posted by: alanleroyII
Quote
Originally posted by: forkushV
Quote
Originally posted by: alanleroyII
Quote
Originally posted by: forkushV
Quote
Originally posted by: alanleroyII
Quote
Originally posted by: forkushV
Quote
Originally posted by: CowboyKell
Quote
Originally posted by: forkushV
Yep 1929 was bad.

But then we elected a socialist president, and re-elected him three more times. Things got better.


Calling Roosevelt a socialist by todays standards is a stretch at best.

Why was he so popular? Was it the SEC? the Wagner act? The FDIC? HELL NO, it was the repeal of prohibition!

I will give him my greatest praise for the CCC, you know, the program where men HAD TO WORK to relive them from poverty.

Would his programs had continued to work if it had not been for WWII? Very unlikely.
Back when I was a kid old Democrats would claim that Roosevelt's New Deal programs rescued us from the Great Depression and old Republicans would claim that it was World War II that finally defeated the Great Depression.

Without realizing it, what both sides agreed upon was that it was government stimulus spending that did the trick. Government make-work jobs, whether from the New Deal or the from the war, jump started the economy into recovery and then into growth.

It sounds like you agree with that, CowboyKell. So in the primary, are you voting for Bernie or Hillary?
...“A few years ago, Moody’s, the financial investment agency, calculated that every $1 of federal money invested in improving the infrastructure for highways and public schools would generate $1.44 back to the economy,” Trump writes in his offensively titled campaign book. “On the federal level, this is going to be an expensive investment, no question about that. But in the long run it will more than pay for itself.” ...
Dang! Look below at what I posted on this forum two-and-a-half years ago. (The bottom line shows Moody's estimate of bang for the buck from infrastructure spending.)

Do you think Trump lurks here?

There is increasing evidence that the multiplier effect is greatly reduced based on public debt to GDP ratios...
Dude, the primo economists who came to that conclusion had their results turned upside down when five major errors were found in their Excel spreadsheet. .
There have been multiple studies on this. Were they all 'turned upside down'? My view is that the Marginal Propensity to Consume has changed as people have increased their personal debt. Instead of buying stuff, they are making payments on stuff they've already bought...
I agree. But your claim about public debt is bullshit because Excel errors. Low growth causes public debt, not the other way around.
Spending more than you take in causes public debt. Duh. It has nothing to do with growth rates and every thing to do with politicians wanting to dole out borrowed money that no one has to pay for....for awhile.

In the words of Candidate Obama...

“The problem is, is that the way Bush has done it over the last eight years is to take out a credit card from the Bank of China in the name of our children, driving up our national debt from $5 trillion dollars for the first 42 presidents — number 43 added $4 trillion dollars by his lonesome, so that we now have over $9 trillion dollars of debt that we are going to have to pay back — $30,000 for every man, woman and child.

That’s irresponsible. It’s unpatriotic.”


pjstroh
pjstroh
May 10, 2016
3:54am
Block User
Reuters: Infrastructure requires funding of 1.4 trillion in the next 10 years

Both Democrats and Republicans will run campaigns on addressing this problem. Can you guess which one of those groups will be honest about paying for it? And which one will tell us they'll pay for it by cutting taxes? - or cutting waste/fraud/abuse?

jatki
jatki
May 10, 2016
7:45am
Block User
Quote
Originally posted by: forkushV
Quote
Originally posted by: CowboyKell
Quote
Originally posted by: forkushV
Yep 1929 was bad.

But then we elected a socialist president, and re-elected him three more times. Things got better.


Calling Roosevelt a socialist by todays standards is a stretch at best.

Why was he so popular? Was it the SEC? the Wagner act? The FDIC? HELL NO, it was the repeal of prohibition!

I will give him my greatest praise for the CCC, you know, the program where men HAD TO WORK to relive them from poverty.

Would his programs had continued to work if it had not been for WWII? Very unlikely.
Back when I was a kid old Democrats would claim that Roosevelt's New Deal programs rescued us from the Great Depression and old Republicans would claim that it was World War II that finally defeated the Great Depression.

Without realizing it, what both sides agreed upon was that it was government stimulus spending that did the trick. Government make-work jobs, whether from the New Deal or the from the war, jump started the economy into recovery and then into growth.

It sounds like you agree with that, CowboyKell. So in the primary, are you voting for Bernie or Hillary?


Oh no, no, no. The New dewal aided in keeping a lot mouths fed, it was WWII and war time production that got the US out of the depression. The returning GI's consuming the economyreally kept the engine churning. The cold war and continued massive military spending didn.t hurt either.

If me, Bernie anyday of the week and twice on Sunday, hell I'd go with satan himself against hill.
jatki
jatki
May 10, 2016
8:38am
Block User
Well if Trump (wins) and he actually gets a trillion dollar infra stucture "shovel ready" program actually gets passed, I would hope it's way more successful than the community orgizers attempt at it. Also hope he never has to laugh at his super expensive mistake which was caught on a "Jobs council" press conf. How embarrassing that was.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O55aRrvXtio

I also recall reading a bit on Trump making the Central Park Ice rink back under budget and ahead of schedule. Small project but the guy seems to know how to get stuff done and obvioulsy make money. The Fed budget is another story, we'd see .

The rink was closed in 1980 for a proposed two years of renovations at $9.1 million. Six years and $13 million later, after the problem-plagued work was still not completed by the city, Donald Trump persuaded Mayor Ed Koch in 1986 to let him complete the work in four months at $2.5 million in order to have it open by the end of the year.[3][4] Koch initially objected to Trump's proposal when Trump offered to pay for the renovations himself with the stipulation that he be allowed to run the venue and an adjacent restaurant and use the profits to recoup his costs. Public pressure prompted Mayor Koch to reverse his position.[5] The rink reopened to the public on November 13, 1986, with a ribbon-cutting ceremony and press conference attended by Koch and Trump, covered by national evening broadcast television news.[6][7] Total cost of renovations by Trump came in under budget at $2.25 million.
forkushV
forkushV
May 10, 2016
9:17am
Block User
Quote
Originally posted by: jatki99
Well if Trump (wins) and he actually gets a trillion dollar infra stucture "shovel ready" program actually gets passed, I would hope it's way more successful than the community orgizers attempt at it. Also hope he never has to laugh at his super expensive mistake which was caught on a "Jobs council" press conf. How embarrassing that was.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O55aRrvXtio

I also recall reading a bit on Trump making the Central Park Ice rink back under budget and ahead of schedule. Small project but the guy seems to know how to get stuff done and obvioulsy make money. The Fed budget is another story, we'd see .

The rink was closed in 1980 for a proposed two years of renovations at $9.1 million. Six years and $13 million later, after the problem-plagued work was still not completed by the city, Donald Trump persuaded Mayor Ed Koch in 1986 to let him complete the work in four months at $2.5 million in order to have it open by the end of the year.[3][4] Koch initially objected to Trump's proposal when Trump offered to pay for the renovations himself with the stipulation that he be allowed to run the venue and an adjacent restaurant and use the profits to recoup his costs. Public pressure prompted Mayor Koch to reverse his position.[5] The rink reopened to the public on November 13, 1986, with a ribbon-cutting ceremony and press conference attended by Koch and Trump, covered by national evening broadcast television news.[6][7] Total cost of renovations by Trump came in under budget at $2.25 million.
  • Trump Taj Mahal - Bankrupt
  • Trump Plaza Hotel - Bankrupt
  • Trump Hotels and Casino Resorts - Bankrupt
  • Trump Entertainment Resorts - Bankrupt
  • Trump University - a "massive scam" (National Review)
  • Trump Airlines - defaulted and surrendered to creditors

    This is a partial list.
    • Terry Locke
    Terry Locke
    May 10, 2016
    9:28am
    Block User
    The wet-the-bed liberal National Review weighed in on this topic.



    Quote
    Originally posted by: jatki99
    Well if Trump (wins) and he actually gets a trillion dollar infra stucture "shovel ready" program actually gets passed, I would hope it's way more successful than the community orgizers attempt at it. Also hope he never has to laugh at his super expensive mistake which was caught on a "Jobs council" press conf. How embarrassing that was.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O55aRrvXtio

    I also recall reading a bit on Trump making the Central Park Ice rink back under budget and ahead of schedule. Small project but the guy seems to know how to get stuff done and obvioulsy make money. The Fed budget is another story, we'd see .

    The rink was closed in 1980 for a proposed two years of renovations at $9.1 million. Six years and $13 million later, after the problem-plagued work was still not completed by the city, Donald Trump persuaded Mayor Ed Koch in 1986 to let him complete the work in four months at $2.5 million in order to have it open by the end of the year.[3][4] Koch initially objected to Trump's proposal when Trump offered to pay for the renovations himself with the stipulation that he be allowed to run the venue and an adjacent restaurant and use the profits to recoup his costs. Public pressure prompted Mayor Koch to reverse his position.[5] The rink reopened to the public on November 13, 1986, with a ribbon-cutting ceremony and press conference attended by Koch and Trump, covered by national evening broadcast television news.[6][7] Total cost of renovations by Trump came in under budget at $2.25 million.


    National Review's take on Trump business success
    Boilerman
    Boilerman
    May 10, 2016
    10:19am
    Block User
    That's the entire list. Trump has had 4 companies go bankrupt. I'm guessing that he's owned a hundred companies, or so.


    Quote
    Originally posted by: forkushV
    Quote
    Originally posted by: jatki99
    Well if Trump (wins) and he actually gets a trillion dollar infra stucture "shovel ready" program actually gets passed, I would hope it's way more successful than the community orgizers attempt at it. Also hope he never has to laugh at his super expensive mistake which was caught on a "Jobs council" press conf. How embarrassing that was.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O55aRrvXtio

    I also recall reading a bit on Trump making the Central Park Ice rink back under budget and ahead of schedule. Small project but the guy seems to know how to get stuff done and obvioulsy make money. The Fed budget is another story, we'd see .

    The rink was closed in 1980 for a proposed two years of renovations at $9.1 million. Six years and $13 million later, after the problem-plagued work was still not completed by the city, Donald Trump persuaded Mayor Ed Koch in 1986 to let him complete the work in four months at $2.5 million in order to have it open by the end of the year.[3][4] Koch initially objected to Trump's proposal when Trump offered to pay for the renovations himself with the stipulation that he be allowed to run the venue and an adjacent restaurant and use the profits to recoup his costs. Public pressure prompted Mayor Koch to reverse his position.[5] The rink reopened to the public on November 13, 1986, with a ribbon-cutting ceremony and press conference attended by Koch and Trump, covered by national evening broadcast television news.[6][7] Total cost of renovations by Trump came in under budget at $2.25 million.
  • Trump Taj Mahal - Bankrupt
  • Trump Plaza Hotel - Bankrupt
  • Trump Hotels and Casino Resorts - Bankrupt
  • Trump Entertainment Resorts - Bankrupt
  • Trump University - a "massive scam" (National Review)
  • Trump Airlines - defaulted and surrendered to creditors

    This is a partial list.


    • alanleroyII
    alanleroyII
    May 10, 2016
    10:33am
    Block User
    Quote
    Originally posted by: Boilerman
    That's the entire list. Trump has had 4 companies go bankrupt. I'm guessing that he's owned a hundred companies, or so.
    Most every businessman of any substance has had failures and successes. The people who have never even tried to start a business are the ones who usually whine the loudest about the failures. Of course both 'Honest Abe' Lincoln and 'Give 'em Hell' Harry Truman had business failures and they worked out ok.

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