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Income Inequality

alanleroyII
alanleroyII
May 12, 2016
12:19am
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Quote
Originally posted by: forkushV
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Originally posted by: alanleroyII
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Originally posted by: forkushV
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Originally posted by: alanleroyII
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Originally posted by: forkushV
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Originally posted by: alanleroyII
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Originally posted by: forkushV
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Originally posted by: alanleroyII
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Originally posted by: Boilerman
That's the entire list. Trump has had 4 companies go bankrupt. I'm guessing that he's owned a hundred companies, or so.
Most every businessman of any substance has had failures and successes...
Four bankruptcies and an airline that was forced into liquidation? And a fraudulent university. Name one other "successful businessman" with such a stellar record.

And when Lincoln and Truman ran for president, they didn't do so based on their business acumen. But other than accusing Obama of being born in Kenya, that's all Trump's got.

He's a successful teevee personality. Calling Trump a "successful businessman" is really a stretch:
Trump has had scores of highly successful real estate developments....billions in assets. He has employed 10's of thousands of people...
A passive index funds investor with the Donald's inheritance who simply kept up with S&P 500 would have invested in more profitable companies, resulting in a hell of a lot more jobs.

From 1987 to 2015 the S&P 500 grew 1,336%. Donald Trump's wealth during that time grew 300%. Tell me again what a good businessman he is.
Is this 1,336% S&P growth accounting for annual income taxes? How much?...
Thanks for asking. The taxes on the increased value of an S&P index fund is.....zero, until you sell it to realize the gain. I'm sure Trump cashed in some stock, spent lavishly, and paid some serious taxes over the last 28 years, but $9 billion dollars? Give me a break.

Given similar funds, the average S&P 500 investor did $9 billion dollars better than Donald Trump, less taxes and spending money. There, you like that better?
So your assessment of Trumps business empire is based solely on a comparison of wild ass guesses of his wealth between two arbitrary years compared to the S&P 500?...
If by "wild ass guesses" you mean estimates by the Associated Press and Fortune Magazine, then the answer is yes.

But even if there estimates of Trump's wealth are off by as much as $9 billion, Trump is still a business loser. Maybe you just want to vote for him because of the whole birth certificate thing.
Sure. Because we always measure a persons business accomplishments based on completely arbitrary date ranges and guesses about net worth after taxes and all the money he's spent and donated compared to an untaxed S&P 500. Do you have any idea how stupid that is? What other businessmen have been measured this way in the history of ever? It's simply another hit piece that has no real meaning in the real world. Zero.

Let's not forget that the whole birther thing was started by Democrats who supported.....Hillary Clinton! But maybe you just want to vote for Hillary because you secretly supported her vote for the Iraq War and all that did to bring wealth to this country. I think forkie must be a secret hegemonist since he seems to love Old Hillary's neocon militaristic philosophy....Yeah. Let's go to war in Iraq. Let's bomb Libya and end them as a nation state. Let's support 'Rebels' in Syria and let ISIS fester. Maybe that should disqualify Clinton from being Commander in Chief. Compared to Trump's business successes, the trillions of dollars squandered in Iraq must seem kind of trivial to you, eh?

Don
Don
May 12, 2016
12:36am
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Quote
Originally posted by: Boilerman
. . . Trump took a $1 million loan and turned it into a lavish lifestyle, a net worth of billions, a smoking hot wife, successful children, . . .

Umm, . . . that should read "smoking hot wives" :

jatki
jatki
May 12, 2016
12:49am
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Quote
Originally posted by: forkushV
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Originally posted by: alanleroyII
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Originally posted by: forkushVThere is only one logical explanation for Mr. Trump's refusal to release his returns: there is a bombshell in them.
There's another logical explanation. He saw how the Democrats exploited Romney's tax returns for political gain and since it is not a requirement for a candidate to release this information he figures it's no one's business...
Aw darn, I forgot to include the quotation marks. And the attribution! Please forgive. I'll give it another shot here:

"It is disqualifying for a modern-day presidential nominee to refuse to release tax returns to the voters, especially one who has not been subject to public scrutiny in either military or public service. Tax returns provide the public with its sole confirmation of the veracity of a candidate's representations regarding charities, priorities, wealth, tax conformance, and conflicts of interest. Further, while not a likely circumstance, the potential for hidden inappropriate associations with foreign entities, criminal organizations, or other unsavory groups is simply too great a risk to ignore for someone who is seeking to become commander-in-chief.

Mr. Trump says he is being audited. So? There is nothing that prevents releasing tax returns that are being audited. Further, he could release returns for the years immediately prior to the years under audit. There is only one logical explanation for Mr. Trump's refusal to release his returns: there is a bombshell in them. Given Mr. Trump's equanimity with other flaws in his history, we can only assume it's a bombshell of unusual size."

May 11, 2016, according to this guy:

[


Too rich, Trump absolutely HAS TO HAVE a "bombshell" in his tax returns because he won't release them, but Hillary who has a flaming trail of smoke couldn't have a single thing in any of her emails that she and staff deleted. Makes perfect sense.Typical forky reasoning/bullshit.

jatki
jatki
May 12, 2016
12:53am
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Quote
Originally posted by: forkushV
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Originally posted by: Boilerman
Submitting tax returns to Forkie is not a requirement to become President. Not even the IRS knows Trump's net worth, and I certainly don't think that a news agency knows. Tax returns would not address his worth, anyhow.
Obviously you missed out on Accounting 101. Several years of tax returns from someone like Donald Trump would read like a novel, and skilled accountants could get very close to his actual worth. Ask Roulette Man CPA. I don't think your usual ally here will back your play.

Rumors are going to be launched that claim that Trump's fortune is much smaller than he claims. That would be justice for the guy who claimed the birth certificate was a phony, don't you think?


Does it matter what his net worth is to be Pres.? No, I didn't think so, and before you start, I highly doubt he knows exactly what it is either unless it's in something measurable, like an index fund.

Boilerman
Boilerman
May 12, 2016
12:56am
Block User
Best I can tell, Trump was given $200,000 by his parents by the time he graduated college. He was later given a $1,000,000 loan by his father, which he repaid. Trump began his own real estate business after working for his father, in or about 1972. I doubt that Trump did not invest his entire $1,200,000 nest egg into his business since he would have living expenses, but for the this discussion we will assume that he did.

$1.2 million invested into the S&P in 1972 and rolling over dividends, would be worth $2.411 billion today. If he is worth $4 billion or $13 billion, crushed the S&P..

$1.2 million invested into Dow Jones Industrial Average would be worth about $19 million. He's absolutely crushed that.

$1.2 million in 1972 indexed for inflation would be worth about $6.8 million today.

Understand, of course, that didn't turn $1.2 million into billions, but actually he turned $200,000 into billions since the $1 loan was repaid. $200,000 dropped into the S&P in would be worth $400 million today.


Forkie is picking and choosing numbers to create a false impression, and he's doing so strategically which is inherently dishonest. One should consider why Forkie feels the need to advance his agenda with dishonesty? If he was in a strong position to argue socialism as a winner, wouldn't he just tell the truth?
forkushV
forkushV
May 12, 2016
12:59am
Block User
Quote
Originally posted by: alanleroyII
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Originally posted by: forkushV
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Originally posted by: alanleroyII
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Originally posted by: forkushV
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Originally posted by: alanleroyII
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Originally posted by: forkushV
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Originally posted by: alanleroyII
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Originally posted by: forkushV
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Originally posted by: alanleroyII
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Originally posted by: Boilerman
That's the entire list. Trump has had 4 companies go bankrupt. I'm guessing that he's owned a hundred companies, or so.
Most every businessman of any substance has had failures and successes...
Four bankruptcies and an airline that was forced into liquidation? And a fraudulent university. Name one other "successful businessman" with such a stellar record.

And when Lincoln and Truman ran for president, they didn't do so based on their business acumen. But other than accusing Obama of being born in Kenya, that's all Trump's got.

He's a successful teevee personality. Calling Trump a "successful businessman" is really a stretch:
Trump has had scores of highly successful real estate developments....billions in assets. He has employed 10's of thousands of people...
A passive index funds investor with the Donald's inheritance who simply kept up with S&P 500 would have invested in more profitable companies, resulting in a hell of a lot more jobs.

From 1987 to 2015 the S&P 500 grew 1,336%. Donald Trump's wealth during that time grew 300%. Tell me again what a good businessman he is.
Is this 1,336% S&P growth accounting for annual income taxes? How much?...
Thanks for asking. The taxes on the increased value of an S&P index fund is.....zero, until you sell it to realize the gain. I'm sure Trump cashed in some stock, spent lavishly, and paid some serious taxes over the last 28 years, but $9 billion dollars? Give me a break.

Given similar funds, the average S&P 500 investor did $9 billion dollars better than Donald Trump, less taxes and spending money. There, you like that better?
So your assessment of Trumps business empire is based solely on a comparison of wild ass guesses of his wealth between two arbitrary years compared to the S&P 500?...
If by "wild ass guesses" you mean estimates by the Associated Press and Fortune Magazine, then the answer is yes.

But even if there estimates of Trump's wealth are off by as much as $9 billion, Trump is still a business loser. Maybe you just want to vote for him because of the whole birth certificate thing.
Sure. Because we always measure a persons business accomplishments based on completely arbitrary date ranges and guesses about net worth after taxes and all the money he's spent and donated compared to an untaxed S&P 500. Do you have any idea how stupid that is? What other businessmen have been measured this way in the history of ever?...
Thanks for asking!

Increases in Net Worth 1988 - 2015

Bill Gates: 7,173%
Warren Buffet: 2,612%
Slightly Below Average S&P 500 Index Fund Investor: 1,335%
Donald Trump: 300%, about $9 billion worse than Mr. S&P Index Fund Investor above.

Trump did a nice job choosing his parents. Other than that, he's a business loser.
pjstroh
pjstroh
May 12, 2016
1:00am
Block User
Quote
Originally posted by: jatki99
Quote
Originally posted by: forkushV
Quote
Originally posted by: Boilerman
Submitting tax returns to Forkie is not a requirement to become President. Not even the IRS knows Trump's net worth, and I certainly don't think that a news agency knows. Tax returns would not address his worth, anyhow.
Obviously you missed out on Accounting 101. Several years of tax returns from someone like Donald Trump would read like a novel, and skilled accountants could get very close to his actual worth. Ask Roulette Man CPA. I don't think your usual ally here will back your play.

Rumors are going to be launched that claim that Trump's fortune is much smaller than he claims. That would be justice for the guy who claimed the birth certificate was a phony, don't you think?


Does it matter what his net worth is to be Pres.? No, I didn't think so, and before you start, I highly doubt he knows exactly what it is either unless it's in something measurable, like an index fund.



it does if you believe honesty is a necessity for a president. All the "Lying Hillary" fanatics are going to have a 3-egg omelette on their face when they see Trump's big lie about his fortune.

But personally, I'd say that's small potatoes. I largely dont care if he lies about his fortune. I'm not whiny like that.

The much bigger lie is his fictional "Self funded campaign" which is a giant ball of bullshit. He is not funding his campaign. He is lending money to his campaign which he will repay himself with all the same special-interest funding he's been bashing everyone else about.
forkushV
forkushV
May 12, 2016
1:06am
Block User
Quote
Originally posted by: jatki99
Quote
Originally posted by: forkushV
Quote
Originally posted by: Boilerman
Submitting tax returns to Forkie is not a requirement to become President. Not even the IRS knows Trump's net worth, and I certainly don't think that a news agency knows. Tax returns would not address his worth, anyhow.
Obviously you missed out on Accounting 101. Several years of tax returns from someone like Donald Trump would read like a novel, and skilled accountants could get very close to his actual worth. Ask Roulette Man CPA. I don't think your usual ally here will back your play.

Rumors are going to be launched that claim that Trump's fortune is much smaller than he claims. That would be justice for the guy who claimed the birth certificate was a phony, don't you think?


Does it matter what his net worth is to be Pres.?...
If building wealth is pretty much the ONLY thing on his resume, yeah, I'd say it matters a lot.

Other than that, Trump's only qualifications are that he led the Birther conspirators, and that he's a teevee personality. Can you name anything else?
alanleroyII
alanleroyII
May 12, 2016
1:48am
Block User
Quote
Originally posted by: forkushV
Trump did a nice job choosing his parents. Other than that, he's a business loser.

Well, well, well. Here is a nice debunking of this whole bullshit narrative.

Should Trump have Indexed?

It points out many of the flaws that I independently described, including the arbitrary time frame selected, not accounting for taxes and expenses, and inaccurately assuming his starting and ending wealth. I know. I'm just that good.

This Bloomberg author concludes "...he's modestly outperformed the S&P over his career, again depending on how you do the math. That, however, understates his performance." So not only did he outperform the S&P he may have crushed it if you were really comparing apples and apples.

So, Trump has built an international business with over 500 independent subsidiaries and employs 10s of thousands of people. He's successfully completed scores major real estate development projects over decades of toil in the free market. Sure, he's had some failures along the way, but he's a long way away from the loser picture forkush is painting. Warren Buffet just wrote off a billion bucks on a failed investment...nobody calls him a 'loser'.

How many businesses has Hillary started? How many billion dollar projects has she completed on schedule? How many private sector jobs has she created? 0. How good of a Secretary of State was she? I give her a D....I didn't fail her only because the Reset Button with the Russians was comedy gold.
alanleroyII
alanleroyII
May 12, 2016
1:58am
Block User
Quote
Originally posted by: forkushV
[

"He didn't win did he?"

Harry Reid referring to his lies that Romney hadn't paid taxes in 10 years.

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