Income Inequality

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Originally posted by: forkushV

You have a couple of publications confused with each other.

Fortune is the one that says Trump is a loser businessman.
Forbes is the one that says Trump is a huge liar about his wealth.
You are the one that says both must be wrong.

There, I'm glad I cleared that up!
It appears that Fortune is just quoting an AP article. So I'm not sure how they even enter the conversation since they had no hand in the analysis...An interesting fact is that although Fortune only summarized the AP results, I can't find the original AP story. I can find literally hundreds of (mostly left leaning) web sites that have quoted the Fortune article. Did this go out in the regular Donald Trump opposition research packet or something?

So you want to use 'Forbes' as your go-to source for the wealth of Donald Trump? You want to use beating the S&P 500 as a measure of business success? Alrighty then...we have the technology to do that.

In 1998 Forbes valued Trump's Empire at 1.5 Billion (He valued it at 5 billion)
In 2016 Forbes valued Trump's Empire at 4.0 Billion (He valued it at 10 + billion)

If we use Forbes Estimates....During the last 18 years Trump grew his wealth...increasing it by 166%
If we use Trump's Estimates..During the last 18 years Trump grew his wealth...increasing it by 100%
During the same timeframe the S&P 500 Index grew from around 1248 to around 1918. An Increase of 53%

Loser businessman? Only if you were to do something completely dishonest....Like taking Trump's beginning number of $5 Billion and compare it to Forbes ending number of $4 Billion.....You know...Like the bullshit you were trying to pull.

But hey...My point was not to prove Trump is the world's greatest businessman. He is not. I'm only pointing out the questionable analysis you're presenting as proof of Trumps lack business success. It really proves nothing at all.

And if you want to have fun with ginned up statistics at home, just use Forbes assessment of Trump's wealth in 1999. They pegged it at -900 million. If you calculate the wealth increase percent from there, he will look like the goose that laid golden eggs....by the metric ton.






Forkie likes Forbes? Well here's a great article about attaining wealth and calling yourself a "public servant"!


https://fortune.com/2016/02/15/hillary-clinton-net-worth-finances/
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Originally posted by: ecomstoc
Forkie likes Forbes? Well here's a great article about attaining wealth and calling yourself a "public servant"!

https://fortune.com/2016/02/15/hillary-clinton-net-worth-finances/

And to think, . . . the entire Clinton fortune began with a simple investment in cattle futures.

Ref: The Fiscal Times
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Originally posted by: DonDiego
Quote

Originally posted by: ecomstoc
Forkie likes Forbes? Well here's a great article about attaining wealth and calling yourself a "public servant"!

https://fortune.com/2016/02/15/hillary-clinton-net-worth-finances/

And to think, . . . the entire Clinton fortune began with a simple investment in cattle futures.

Ref: The Fiscal Times
Hillary has released every year of her taxes since Gerald Ford was president.

Quote

Originally posted by: alanleroyII
Quote

Originally posted by: forkushV

You have a couple of publications confused with each other.

Fortune is the one that says Trump is a loser businessman.
Forbes is the one that says Trump is a huge liar about his wealth.
You are the one that says both must be wrong.

There, I'm glad I cleared that up!
It appears that Fortune is just quoting an AP article. So I'm not sure how they even enter the conversation since they had no hand in the analysis...An interesting fact is that although Fortune only summarized the AP results, I can't find the original AP story. I can find literally hundreds of (mostly left leaning) web sites that have quoted the Fortune article. Did this go out in the regular Donald Trump opposition research packet or something?

So you want to use 'Forbes' as your go-to source for the wealth of Donald Trump? You want to use beating the S&P 500 as a measure of business success? Alrighty then...we have the technology to do that.

In 1998 Forbes valued Trump's Empire at 1.5 Billion (He valued it at 5 billion)
In 2016 Forbes valued Trump's Empire at 4.0 Billion (He valued it at 10 + billion)...
Okay, cool, let's go with what Forbes says. That means:

  • Trump told huge lies about his wealth when applying for business loans.
  • Trump told huge lies about his wealth when applying for casino licenses.
  • Trump told huge lies about his wealth in his filings to run for president.

    ...according to alanleroy's preferred source.

    No wonder he's a Republican.
  • Trump answers question about his tax rate...."Its none of your business"
    USA Today

    Note - this was not a request to see his returns. Its just a simple question of what percentage of his income he pays in taxes. Trump doesn't want anyone to know.
    Quote

    Originally posted by: forkushV
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    Originally posted by: alanleroyII
    Quote

    Originally posted by: forkushV

    You have a couple of publications confused with each other.

    Fortune is the one that says Trump is a loser businessman.
    Forbes is the one that says Trump is a huge liar about his wealth.
    You are the one that says both must be wrong.

    There, I'm glad I cleared that up!
    It appears that Fortune is just quoting an AP article. So I'm not sure how they even enter the conversation since they had no hand in the analysis...An interesting fact is that although Fortune only summarized the AP results, I can't find the original AP story. I can find literally hundreds of (mostly left leaning) web sites that have quoted the Fortune article. Did this go out in the regular Donald Trump opposition research packet or something?

    So you want to use 'Forbes' as your go-to source for the wealth of Donald Trump? You want to use beating the S&P 500 as a measure of business success? Alrighty then...we have the technology to do that.

    In 1998 Forbes valued Trump's Empire at 1.5 Billion (He valued it at 5 billion)
    In 2016 Forbes valued Trump's Empire at 4.0 Billion (He valued it at 10 + billion)...
    Okay, cool, let's go with what Forbes says. That means:

  • Trump told huge lies about his wealth when applying for business loans.
  • Trump told huge lies about his wealth when applying for casino licenses.
  • Trump told huge lies about his wealth in his filings to run for president.

    ...according to alanleroy's preferred source.

    No wonder he's a Republican.
  • It may mean no such thing...It may just mean they used different methods to value his assets. Let's take a simple example for the simple minded. Take a property I purchased in 1998. How do you value that asset today? You can go to the tax assessor and get a number....150,000. You can look at what I paid for it (100,000) and apply percent that represents general property value changes in my area 175,000. You can estimate the market value by asking experts to put a price on it 200,000. Or you can look at my balance sheet and see quite clearly that it is still valued at 100,000. Who is telling 'huge lies'? Actually no one is.

    ForkushV: "But alanleroyii the numbers are different...someone must be lying"
    alanleroyii "Only if you believe an apple is an orange, duh"


    But regardless of the fact that no has to be 'lying' to have a different estimate, since you decided to go with 'what Forbes said'; you now have to conclude that Trump is not the loser businessman you claimed. After all, he crushed the S&P500 index for my cherry picked timeline. Did you just make an error or were you trying to be dishonest?

    Oh...and I am not now, nor have I ever been...A Republican. Another Forkush lie. They just keep on coming.

    Quote

    Originally posted by: BobOrme
    ...I do believe liberalism is a mental disorder...
    Hey Bob, so how long have you been claiming that Social Security and Medicare are Ponzi schemes, and that the money was going to run out? Forty years? Thirty at least, right? Well here it is 2016 and the only reason you have your roof over your head is Social Security. And without Medicare, you might be dead sooner rather than later. Of course those programs don't even exist without liberals, so as a liberal, I'd like to say, "You're welcome." But the least you could do is say "Thank you," you fucking ingrate.

    And the recession that screwed up your life royally? It was largely caused by criminal bankers who funded over-appraised liar loan mortgages from criminal brokers, packaged them, and got criminal rating agencies to rate them AAA. And yet you and the politicians you support rail against the kind of government laws and regulations - and government workers - who could have mitigated that.

    And you complain about frivolous lawsuits, yet your candidate is the guy who sued over being called an orangutan. Bob, an amoeba has more self-awareness than you do.
    Quote

    Originally posted by: alanleroyII
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    Originally posted by: forkushV
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    Originally posted by: alanleroyII
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    Originally posted by: forkushV...depending upon your fantasy life imagination.

    Since 1988 ...blah, blah, blah
    It's your fantasy life imagination that Trumps business life began in 1988...
    Oh I completely admit Trump was successful prior to 1988. Since 1988 - a loser businessman.
    So your fantasy world begins in 1988. Why not 1998? Or 2008? Or 1978?

    "How to lie with statistics" is a book everyone should read. It shows how a lot of supposed analysis is really designed to fool rather than inform. This is clearly the case here.

    Anyone who claims you can assess Trump as a 'loser businessman' because your made up wealth numbers, arbitrary timelines and inaccurate comparisons are outperformed by the S&P is either an idiot or a dishonest loser. Which are you?

    Sorry...I couldn't resist the classic Forkie false dilemma.


    I'm pretty sure the first thing we learned in STAT 401 class is that statistics can be manipulated to pretty much prove any point one wants to make. Similar to polling, skew the questions to reflect the result somebody wants and VOILA! ,there it is.
    Quote

    Originally posted by: forkushV
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    Originally posted by: alanleroyII
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    Originally posted by: forkushV
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    Originally posted by: alanleroyII
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    Originally posted by: Boilerman
    Oh gosh, I'm shock!

    I just found learned that the housing index in Manhattan was at a peak of 100 in 1988, then dropped by 27% over the next 6 years. The index did not again hit 100 until 2002...............14 years after Forkies random year of 1988.

    Okay Forkie, how about you repeat your calculations, except this time begin in 1998?
    Also the S&P was at a low point on 1/1/88, so the index he's comparing to was moving into a major bull market. If the analysis started in 1/1/2000 it would be a completely different result...but that wouldn't fit his narrative.
    You want to compare it with 2000? Cool!

    In 2000, Trump claimed his net worth was $5 billion. In 2016, Forbes says he is worth $4 billion.

    I think he would have done better to invest in Blockbuster Video. Can't you just smell the great business acumen?
    Well if you accept his 2000 claim of a $5 billon net worth then you'd be a hypocrite to not accept his 2015 claim of a 10+ billion net worth.

    https://www.donaldjtrump.com/press-releases/donald-j.-trump-files-personal-financial-disclosure-statement-with-federal

    So using your methodology, his net worth increased by 100% during a period when the S&P 500 increased by 30%. What a truly remarkable businessman.
    If Forbes mis-estimated Donald Trump's worth by 250%, then Trump is a great businessman.

    If Forbes is accurate, than Trump is a loser businessman.

    Can we all agree on that?


    I can't believe you're still rolling with that(Trump a loser businessman). I know you have to be going for the joke there. How much has your net worth increased or decreased by your timlelines? I'm guessing, and I say pretty accurately, that it's nowhere close to Trumps.

    Keep going with that forky, I'll get another shovel delivered to you if yu like.
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