The inevitable math of healthcare

Quote

Originally posted by: IndyBoilerman
I learned about mandates long ago.

Obama promised no new taxes for 99% of America. That equals no more taxes, lots more free sheet, lower medical costs. That was the promise. Would PJ explain where they money was to come from? Was it magic money from Heaven, or was the money going to generated from Obamacare efficiencies leading to savings..................as was promised. What other explanation was there, PJ?

Did PJ bother to read about the new taxes on those earned less than $250,000 per year? One more big fat Obama lie.



I'm not sure my IQ is low enough to continue with this conversation. You concede that you've known about the mandate for a long time...and in the same thread you say all these payment mechanisms were hidden from you under a promise of cost savings being the exclusive payment mechanism. And you cant cite or quote where you got that from.

You cant name the tax increase that you're paying as a result of Obamacare - despite that being your claim. And you cant show me any income displacement of the population resulting from Obamacare despite that being your claim.

And you definitely cant bring yourself to be critical of Republicans that are now embracing the same provisions you pretend to be upset with Obamacare about.

So - I think we're all done here.

How's this for an individual mandate? If you choose to not have health insurance and then can't afford to pay for medical services you need, you don't get medical services...unless you come up with cash or credit card to pay for it.
PJ is once again being disingenuous. I posted the Obamacare taxes that apply to me yesterday at 11:38am. The link was to a Forbes article titled "Obamacare's 7 Tax Hikes On Under $250,000-A-Year Earners". This article was 5 years ago, and there more taxes taxes today.

Here's the timeline.


1. Lies, lies, lies
2. "We need to sign it so you can find out what's in it."
3. Lies, lies, lies
4. Passage.
5. Here come all the taxes that we were promised wouldn't happen.





Quote

Originally posted by: pjstroh
Quote

Originally posted by: IndyBoilerman
I learned about mandates long ago.

Obama promised no new taxes for 99% of America. That equals no more taxes, lots more free sheet, lower medical costs. That was the promise. Would PJ explain where they money was to come from? Was it magic money from Heaven, or was the money going to generated from Obamacare efficiencies leading to savings..................as was promised. What other explanation was there, PJ?

Did PJ bother to read about the new taxes on those earned less than $250,000 per year? One more big fat Obama lie.



I'm not sure my IQ is low enough to continue with this conversation. You concede that you've known about the mandate for a long time...and in the same thread you say all these payment mechanisms were hidden from you under a promise of cost savings being the exclusive payment mechanism. And you cant cite or quote where you got that from.

You cant name the tax increase that you're paying as a result of Obamacare - despite that being your claim. And you cant show me any income displacement of the population resulting from Obamacare despite that being your claim.

And you definitely cant bring yourself to be critical of Republicans that are now embracing the same provisions you pretend to be upset with Obamacare about.

So - I think we're all done here.


Quote

Originally posted by: alanleroy
How's this for an individual mandate? If you choose to not have health insurance and then can't afford to pay for medical services you need, you don't get medical services...unless you come up with cash or credit card to pay for it.

Ahh, . . . the Good Old Days.

Little DonDiego was alive in those times, . . . the family doctor made house calls carrying a little black bag, . . . and he treated emergencies right in his office; DonDiego has the stitches-scars to prove it.

Times were good, . . . dare DonDiego say "better", . . . then. [He knows he can say it, but he expects the scolds online to admonish him.]

I've argued for years that all able bodied Americans should pay their own way on all matters, including medical. Most on the left consider this concept preposterous.


Quote

Originally posted by: alanleroy
How's this for an individual mandate? If you choose to not have health insurance and then can't afford to pay for medical services you need, you don't get medical services...unless you come up with cash or credit card to pay for it.


In 2009 medical insurance margins were ranked 86th at 3.3%. In 2010 it slipped to 88th.


https://1.bp.blogspot.com/_otfwl2zc6Qc/SoMLoWBKM4I/AAAAAAAAK4g/wKdZyg5LxQ0/s1600-h/profits.bmp
Quote

Originally posted by: IndyBoilerman
I've argued for years that all able bodied Americans should pay their own way on all matters, including medical. Most on the left consider this concept preposterous.


Quote

Originally posted by: alanleroy
How's this for an individual mandate? If you choose to not have health insurance and then can't afford to pay for medical services you need, you don't get medical services...unless you come up with cash or credit card to pay for it.



I heard you argue the opposite. The individual mandate for able bodied people to pay their own way was unconstitutional or something
Quote

Originally posted by: DonDiego
Quote

Originally posted by: alanleroy
How's this for an individual mandate? If you choose to not have health insurance and then can't afford to pay for medical services you need, you don't get medical services...unless you come up with cash or credit card to pay for it.

Ahh, . . . the Good Old Days.

Little DonDiego was alive in those times, . . . the family doctor made house calls carrying a little black bag, . . . and he treated emergencies right in his office; DonDiego has the stitches-scars to prove it.

Times were good, . . . dare DonDiego say "better", . . . then. [He knows he can say it, but he expects the scolds online to admonish him.]


There was no Medicare then, right? Honestly I wasn't around so I can't name the private insurance company that provided coverage to senior citizens whose health risks on everything from heart disease to cancer were many multiples higher than younger people. Perhaps DonDiego can fill me in on the entity that provided that service. Or were the elderly just out of luck when it came to costly healthcare expenses?


Quote

Originally posted by: pjstroh
Perhaps DonDiego can fill me in on the entity that provided that service. Or were the elderly just out of luck when it came to costly healthcare expenses?
Back in the olden days you went to the barber and paid cash for the bloodletting.
Quote

Originally posted by: pjstroh
Quote

Originally posted by: DonDiego
Quote

Originally posted by: alanleroy
How's this for an individual mandate? If you choose to not have health insurance and then can't afford to pay for medical services you need, you don't get medical services...unless you come up with cash or credit card to pay for it.

Ahh, . . . the Good Old Days.

Little DonDiego was alive in those times, . . . the family doctor made house calls carrying a little black bag, . . . and he treated emergencies right in his office; DonDiego has the stitches-scars to prove it.

Times were good, . . . dare DonDiego say "better", . . . then. [He knows he can say it, but he expects the scolds online to admonish him.]

There was no Medicare then, right? Honestly I wasn't around so I can't name the private insurance company that provided coverage to senior citizens whose health risks on everything from heart disease to cancer were many multiples higher than younger people. Perhaps DonDiego can fill me in on the entity that provided that service. Or were the elderly just out of luck when it came to costly healthcare expenses?
Perhaps some history is in order.

From the time of the rise of the Cro-Magnon in Europe into the Middle Ages the primary medical practice was to leave dying members of the tribe behind, so that Nature, through the activity of wild beasts, could keep the environment free of biological debris.
By the Middle Ages sufficiently skilled, educated individuals actually practiced the Art of Medicine, the results of which typically led to the physical condition of the afflicted patient worsening and to a more painful and unpleasant death than the otherwise natural course of events would have provided. These services were provided on a fee-for-service basis.

But, perhaps, poor old DonDiego should skip forward a few centuries to address health insurance in the time of young DonDiego.

Into almost the middle of the 20th Century in the United States medical insurance was pretty-well limited to the wealthier citizenry; the Common-Folk engaged in a "fee-for-service" system; i.e. they paid for any medical care they got.
Then World War II arose and the Federal Government imposed wage-controls on US employers. However, these controls did not apply to benefit packages, such as health insurance. And so Employer-paid group heath insurance rapidly took hold, . . . as a benefit offered to attract workers in a tight labor-market.

Anyway, back in little DonDiego's time his father received family group health insurance coverage as a condition of employment with The Bethlehem Steel Company. [note i.]
DonDiego likewise found employment which provided him health insurance, . . . to which he was required to contribute a portion of the premium and to which he continues to provide a portion of the premium even in his well-earned retirement. [note ii.]

The "entity" which provided insurance to DonDiego's father, then, and to DonDiego, now, as senior citizens is the same insurer which insured them during their employment.

He recommends others arrange their lives similarly.

Oh, and as a condition of employment poor DonDiego had also been required to contribute to Medicare for his entire working life. The medical practitioners who attend poor old DonDiego are reimbursed first by Medicare, and then by his group health insurer. DonDiego thanks the Federal Government and all citizen-taxpayers for paying first to, thereby, reduce the payments required from his private health insurer.

note i.: DonDiego is not inclined to name the private health insurer; let it suffice that it is a major health insurer, the name of which the reader would likely recognize.
note ii.: [See note i. Co-incidentally the private health insurer is the same national company which insured DonDiego's father.]
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