The inevitable math of healthcare

Yep. History is always good. Politifact reminisces about healthcare for Seniors before Medicare. Turns out it was kinda shitty...especially if you needed to stay in a hospital room.

I wish Repulicans had the courage to run on this platform (for Democrats' sake)

Ah, the gold ole days !

"In all, slightly more than half of Americans 65 and older had health insurance at the end of 1962. That works out to 64 percent of couples, 49 percent of un-married women and 37 percent of un-married men.

"And what they had was terrible insurance -- it didn’t do much to cover them," said
Dorothy Pechman Rice, a retired professor at the University of California at San Francisco who served as director of the National Center for Health Statistics from 1976 to 1982.

The study found that nine out of 10 couples, and eight out of 10 elderly individuals, "assumed responsibility for their own costs without help from government sources or private voluntary agencies." Some paid from their own savings or with the help of insurance, and some could pay "only because doctors or hospitals adjusted their rates in light of the patient’s limited resources."

Depending on the marital category, between 18 and 26 percent of seniors without health insurance relied on public assistance to pay some of the costs they incurred. The report concluded that such rates were "evidence of the fact that many of the aged simply cannot afford a hospital stay."

Indeed, the biggest distinction the surveyors found was between elderly patients who needed to be hospitalized and those who didn’t. For instance, in a year without hospitalization, married couples incurred median medical costs of $173, or $1,289 in today’s dollars. In contrast, a year with at least one hospitalization meant incurring median costs of $938, or just short of $7,000 in today’s money.

In other words, in the pre-1965 era, if you had to go to the hospital, the hospital may not have turned you down -- but if you were in the sizable percentage of Americans who had to pay all or much of the costs out of pocket, you’d be paying for your misfortune for years to come."

Oh my God. The left requires someone to buy medical care, and this is the biggest crock of shit ever. No one should be required to buy themselves medical care, and no one should be required to pay for their own medical care, and no one should be required to pay for any able bodied American's medical care.

It's a simple concept. Every able bodied man and women pays EVERYTHING for themselves. I understand that this is confusing to some, but sensible folks can follow right along.



Quote

Originally posted by: pjstroh
Quote

Originally posted by: IndyBoilerman
I've argued for years that all able bodied Americans should pay their own way on all matters, including medical. Most on the left consider this concept preposterous.


Quote

Originally posted by: alanleroy
How's this for an individual mandate? If you choose to not have health insurance and then can't afford to pay for medical services you need, you don't get medical services...unless you come up with cash or credit card to pay for it.



I heard you argue the opposite. The individual mandate for able bodied people to pay their own way was unconstitutional or something


Such simple solutions from such simple minds. You go, girl!
Unless boils is an avid indoor tanner, I'd love to know which of the seven taxes mentioned in the article he linked affects him? Methinks this is another example of indy finding an attractive article title and linking it without reading it.
I'm not sure if it is laziness or maliciousness. Not that it really matters.

Nope, Billy is incorrect. I've had ten knee surgeries, including two knee placements, plus one spinal fusion surgery. I got tagged on #1, #2, and #3 (see below). I believe that this list excluded the extra taxes on medical implants (spinal hardware and knee hardware), that I've experience since Obama began his serial lies.

https://www.forbes.com/sites/ashleaebeling/2012/06/28/obamacares-7-tax-hikes-on-under-250000-a-year-earners/#9ad735e6bdc9

Boiler, and millions of other Americans paid for Obama lies.


Quote

Originally posted by: billryan
Unless boils is an avid indoor tanner, I'd love to know which of the seven taxes mentioned in the article he linked affects him? Methinks this is another example of indy finding an attractive article title and linking it without reading it.
I'm not sure if it is laziness or maliciousness. Not that it really matters.


Nope, Billy is incorrect. I've had ten knee surgeries, including two knee placements, plus one spinal fusion surgery. I got tagged on #1, #2, and #3 (see below). I believe that this list excluded the extra taxes on medical implants (spinal hardware and knee hardware), that I've experience since Obama began his serial lies.

https://www.forbes.com/sites/ashleaebeling/2012/06/28/obamacares-7-tax-hikes-on-under-250000-a-year-earners/#9ad735e6bdc9

Boiler, and millions of other Americans paid for Obama lies.


Quote

Originally posted by: billryan
Unless boils is an avid indoor tanner, I'd love to know which of the seven taxes mentioned in the article he linked affects him? Methinks this is another example of indy finding an attractive article title and linking it without reading it.
I'm not sure if it is laziness or maliciousness. Not that it really matters.


Oh, Willy Billy is correct on one front. I go to Mexico once each year, and I tan for one week prior to my departure. One more Barry lie.


Quote

Originally posted by: IndyBoilerman
Nope, Billy is incorrect. I've had ten knee surgeries, including two knee placements, plus one spinal fusion surgery. I got tagged on #1, #2, and #3 (see below). I believe that this list excluded the extra taxes on medical implants (spinal hardware and knee hardware), that I've experience since Obama began his serial lies.

https://www.forbes.com/sites/ashleaebeling/2012/06/28/obamacares-7-tax-hikes-on-under-250000-a-year-earners/#9ad735e6bdc9

Boiler, and millions of other Americans paid for Obama lies.


Quote

Originally posted by: billryan
Unless boils is an avid indoor tanner, I'd love to know which of the seven taxes mentioned in the article he linked affects him? Methinks this is another example of indy finding an attractive article title and linking it without reading it.
I'm not sure if it is laziness or maliciousness. Not that it really matters.



Here’s a rundown of seven ObamaCare tax hikes that affect the hoi polloi.
No. 1. The Individual Mandate Excise Tax. Starting in 2014, anyone not buying “qualifying” health insurance must pay an income tax surtax. It goes up each year until 2016 and beyond when a couple would pay a tax of the higher of $1,360 or 2.5% of adjusted gross incom

No. 2. The Over-The-Counter Drugs Trap. Since Jan. 1, 2011, employees with health savings accounts, flexible spending accounts or health reimbursement accounts have no longer been able to use pre-tax funds stashed in these accounts to buy over-the-counter medicines for allergy relief and the like without a doctor’s prescription (there’s an exception for insulin).
No. 3. The Healthcare Flexible Spending Account Cap. Starting Jan. 1, 2013, employees will face a $2,500 cap on the amount of pre-tax salary deferrals they can make into a healthcare flexible spending account. There is no cap under current law. In light of the new cap, employee benefits groups are lobbying for Congress to modify the use-it-or-lose-it rule that means employees forfeit unused funds in their accounts at the end of the plan year.
No. 4. The Medical Itemized Deduction Hurdle. Starting Jan. 1, 2013, taxpayers who face high medical expenses will only be allowed a deduction for expenses to the extent they exceed 10% of adjusted gross income, up from 7.5% now.  Taxpayers 65 and older can still use the old 7.5% threshold through 2016. For how to score the medical expense deduction before 2013, click here.
No. 5. The Health Savings Account Withdrawal Penalty. Since Jan. 1, 2011, taxpayers who withdraw money from health savings accounts for non-medical expenses before age 65 face a 20% penalty, up from 10% before.
No. 6. The Indoor Tanning Services Tax. Since July 1, 2010, folks using indoor tanning salons face a new 10% excise tax. This one hasn't been bringing in as much revenue as anticipated.
No. 7. The Cadillac Health Insurance Plan Tax. Starting in 2018, there will be a new 40% excise tax on taxpayers who are covered by high-cost health insurance plans (with premiums at or above $10,200 for a single or $27,500 for a family). Insurers or employers who are self-insured will pay the tax, but it is expected to trickle down to mean higher costs for consumers.
Americans For Tax Reform has a full list of ObamaCare’s 20 new or higher taxes on American families and small businesses.


Boils claims he was effected by 1,2 and 3.
I , plain and simply, don't believe him.
When Medicare was passed, the original projected costs by 1990 was to be $9 billion. The actual cost was $67 billion. Currently the program has an unfunded deficit of $40 trillion. There are billions wasted on fraud.

Pj & company want to double down & put everyone on this program.
Then Willy would be wrong.


Quote

Originally posted by: billryan
Here’s a rundown of seven ObamaCare tax hikes that affect the hoi polloi.
No. 1. The Individual Mandate Excise Tax. Starting in 2014, anyone not buying “qualifying” health insurance must pay an income tax surtax. It goes up each year until 2016 and beyond when a couple would pay a tax of the higher of $1,360 or 2.5% of adjusted gross incom

No. 2. The Over-The-Counter Drugs Trap. Since Jan. 1, 2011, employees with health savings accounts, flexible spending accounts or health reimbursement accounts have no longer been able to use pre-tax funds stashed in these accounts to buy over-the-counter medicines for allergy relief and the like without a doctor’s prescription (there’s an exception for insulin).
No. 3. The Healthcare Flexible Spending Account Cap. Starting Jan. 1, 2013, employees will face a $2,500 cap on the amount of pre-tax salary deferrals they can make into a healthcare flexible spending account. There is no cap under current law. In light of the new cap, employee benefits groups are lobbying for Congress to modify the use-it-or-lose-it rule that means employees forfeit unused funds in their accounts at the end of the plan year.
No. 4. The Medical Itemized Deduction Hurdle. Starting Jan. 1, 2013, taxpayers who face high medical expenses will only be allowed a deduction for expenses to the extent they exceed 10% of adjusted gross income, up from 7.5% now.  Taxpayers 65 and older can still use the old 7.5% threshold through 2016. For how to score the medical expense deduction before 2013, click here.
No. 5. The Health Savings Account Withdrawal Penalty. Since Jan. 1, 2011, taxpayers who withdraw money from health savings accounts for non-medical expenses before age 65 face a 20% penalty, up from 10% before.
No. 6. The Indoor Tanning Services Tax. Since July 1, 2010, folks using indoor tanning salons face a new 10% excise tax. This one hasn't been bringing in as much revenue as anticipated.
No. 7. The Cadillac Health Insurance Plan Tax. Starting in 2018, there will be a new 40% excise tax on taxpayers who are covered by high-cost health insurance plans (with premiums at or above $10,200 for a single or $27,500 for a family). Insurers or employers who are self-insured will pay the tax, but it is expected to trickle down to mean higher costs for consumers.
Americans For Tax Reform has a full list of ObamaCare’s 20 new or higher taxes on American families and small businesses.


Boils claims he was effected by 1,2 and 3.
I , plain and simply, don't believe him.


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