JEB! On Oregon Mass Shootings - "Stuff Happens"

PJ is correct, and everyone of this site agrees with me. Can I hang out a PJ's house with a megaphone, and blast my disagreements about your politics? All the Libs on this site have pointed out the this sort of free speech shouldn't be allowed.

What does PJ think?


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Originally posted by: pjstroh
So in conclusion:

Boilerman believes its ok to interpret limits to the Constitution ...except when he doesn't. The Supreme Court is given a similar role in our society. But who needs them when we have Boilerman.


I see. Free speech on the "public square" is unlimited, but if Boiler wishes to use a megaphone in front of AlanLeroy's house for one consistent year...................well that speech shouldn't be free and unlimited. In other words, if it's isn't bothering the Liberal, then the speech is acceptable and unlimited. If it his bothering the Liberal, then it should be limited.



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Originally posted by: alanleroyII
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Originally posted by: Boilerman
Alanleroy agrees that there are limitations to free speech. Authorities are limiting "free speech" of the street performers, and only allowing small spaces, limited times, and specific locations for them to "perform". This program was set up to protect the rights of the business owner and their employees. Can I set up camp on the sidewalk in front of Alanleroy's house and boom with a megaphone day after day, week after week, and month after month. I suspect that Alanleroy would demand to have this "speech" limited.

There have been court hearings and this is what was settled on. Fremont Street will be a better place for patrons, employees, and business owners beginning November 1.


1. There have been no 'court hearings' on this. You said a court decided it. Wrong again.
2. You have constantly said these people should be banned from Fremont Street....and it was not against their right to free speech to ban them.
3. You have been consistently wrong about this and it makes your statement about 'Liberals' only supporting parts of the constitution they agree with quite hypocritical.
4. I have never said there were no limits to free speech. I have said free speech in the public square is a right that should be supported by all Americans...whether they agree with what's being expressed or not. You're the one who wants to further limit free speech...You must not care much about our blessed constitution.


If you are on a public street in front of Alan Leroy's house you could stand out there for a year. You could even shot Alan Leroy wears panties to everyone that passes by. The truth is even the most die hard troll would tire of that quickly.

For all of you Constitutional scholars here are the actual amendments in question:

First Amendment: Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the government for a redress of grievances.

Second Amendment: A well regulated militia, being necessary to the security of a free state, the right of the people to keep and bear arms, shall not be infringed.

The interesting thing to note is there are no exceptions or limiting language built into the First Amendment. In fact, the exceptions that we have for the regulation of free speech are a product of judicial activism. The first real exception was saying free speech doesn’t apply to commercial speech. The most famous exception is pornography although for all practical purposes that is dead unless it is something illegal. However, there are two big exceptions built into the Second Amendment. One it states a purpose a militia. Secondly, it says the militia has to be well regulated.


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Originally posted by: Boilerman
I see. Free speech on the "public square" is unlimited, but if Boiler wishes to use a megaphone in front of AlanLeroy's house for one consistent year...................well that speech shouldn't be free and unlimited. In other words, if it's isn't bothering the Liberal, then the speech is acceptable and unlimited. If it his bothering the Liberal, then it should be limited.



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Originally posted by: alanleroyII
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Originally posted by: Boilerman
Alanleroy agrees that there are limitations to free speech. Authorities are limiting "free speech" of the street performers, and only allowing small spaces, limited times, and specific locations for them to "perform". This program was set up to protect the rights of the business owner and their employees. Can I set up camp on the sidewalk in front of Alanleroy's house and boom with a megaphone day after day, week after week, and month after month. I suspect that Alanleroy would demand to have this "speech" limited.

There have been court hearings and this is what was settled on. Fremont Street will be a better place for patrons, employees, and business owners beginning November 1.


1. There have been no 'court hearings' on this. You said a court decided it. Wrong again.
2. You have constantly said these people should be banned from Fremont Street....and it was not against their right to free speech to ban them.
3. You have been consistently wrong about this and it makes your statement about 'Liberals' only supporting parts of the constitution they agree with quite hypocritical.
4. I have never said there were no limits to free speech. I have said free speech in the public square is a right that should be supported by all Americans...whether they agree with what's being expressed or not. You're the one who wants to further limit free speech...You must not care much about our blessed constitution.



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Originally posted by: malibber2
If you're on a public street in front of alanleroyII's house you could stand out there for a year. You could even shout "alanleroyII wears panties" to everyone that passes by. The truth is even the most die hard troll would tire of that quickly.


My nearest neighbor is 1/4 mile away and I wouldn't be able to hear him or see him if he was in the street....I would put a camera on him, stream it to periscope and charge people $2.00 to watch him live....Integrate that with some on-line betting about when he gives up and that's a new business model right there. We business people have rights too....just none beyond our constitutionally guaranteed ones.


I understand. If a Liberal is insulated, then unlimited free speech is acceptable. You remind me of the Hollywood Liberals who demand gun control, yet they have private armed security guards with them each day.


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Originally posted by: alanleroyII
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Originally posted by: malibber2
If you're on a public street in front of alanleroyII's house you could stand out there for a year. You could even shout "alanleroyII wears panties" to everyone that passes by. The truth is even the most die hard troll would tire of that quickly.


My nearest neighbor is 1/4 mile away and I wouldn't be able to hear him or see him if he was in the street....I would put a camera on him, stream it to periscope and charge people $2.00 to watch him live....Integrate that with some on-line betting about when he gives up and that's a new business model right there. We business people have rights too....just none beyond our constitutionally guaranteed ones.


Unfortunately, the framers of the constitution and our rights advocates don't guarantee us the right to be protected from stupidity. Sadly, the stupid use the first and second amendments to justify stupidity. I'm certain this was not the original intent of the constitution or rights. Could be wrong about that, but...
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Originally posted by: malibber2
If your on a public street in front of Alan Leroy's house you could stand out there for a year. You could even short Alan Leroy wears panties to everyone that passes by. The truth is even the most die hard troll would tire of that quickly.

For all of you Constitutional scholars here are the actual amendments in question:

First Amendment: Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the government for a redress of grievances.

Second Amendment: A well regulated militia, being necessary to the security of a free state, the right of the people to keep and bear arms, shall not be infringed.

The interesting thing to note is there are no exceptions or limiting language built into the First Amendment. In fact, the exceptions that we have for the regulation of free speech is a product of judicial activism. The first real exception was saying free speech doesn’t apply to commercial speech. The most famous exception is pornography although for all practical purposes that is dead unless it is something illegal. However, there are two big exceptions built into the Second Amendment. One it states a purpose a militia. Secondly, it says the militia has to be well regulated.


Quote

Originally posted by: Boilerman
I see. Free speech on the "public square" is unlimited, but if Boiler wishes to use a megaphone in front of AlanLeroy's house for one consistent year...................well that speech shouldn't be free and unlimited. In other words, if it's isn't bothering the Liberal, then the speech is acceptable and unlimited. If it his bothering the Liberal, then it should be limited.



Quote

Originally posted by: alanleroyII
Quote

Originally posted by: Boilerman
Alanleroy agrees that there are limitations to free speech. Authorities are limiting "free speech" of the street performers, and only allowing small spaces, limited times, and specific locations for them to "perform". This program was set up to protect the rights of the business owner and their employees. Can I set up camp on the sidewalk in front of Alanleroy's house and boom with a megaphone day after day, week after week, and month after month. I suspect that Alanleroy would demand to have this "speech" limited.

There have been court hearings and this is what was settled on. Fremont Street will be a better place for patrons, employees, and business owners beginning November 1.


1. There have been no 'court hearings' on this. You said a court decided it. Wrong again.
2. You have constantly said these people should be banned from Fremont Street....and it was not against their right to free speech to ban them.
3. You have been consistently wrong about this and it makes your statement about 'Liberals' only supporting parts of the constitution they agree with quite hypocritical.
4. I have never said there were no limits to free speech. I have said free speech in the public square is a right that should be supported by all Americans...whether they agree with what's being expressed or not. You're the one who wants to further limit free speech...You must not care much about our blessed constitution.




The militia was the common man back in the 1700's as most households had firearms. Some folks want this to mean only uniformed troops and police can have firearms and no one else. Since there wasn't a dedicated army, every able bodied man was asked to fight, kinda a kin to the old west posse.

Something to remember was all the stuff that led to the states breaking away from merry olde England. The colonists sent representatives to England to plead their case of having their viewpoints heard. The King needing the tax revenue ended up sending troops to force the colonists into submission. Since we did not have an army back then, we asked for volunteers to fight. (see above)

The Founding Fathers (who keep looking smarter every decade) wanted to ensure that we could take back our country if the current form of government had gotten too far out of hand. Ensuring the right to keep and bear arms was their way of doing it.

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Originally posted by: chefantwon
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Originally posted by: malibber2
If your on a public street in front of Alan Leroy's house you could stand out there for a year. You could even short Alan Leroy wears panties to everyone that passes by. The truth is even the most die hard troll would tire of that quickly.

For all of you Constitutional scholars here are the actual amendments in question:

First Amendment: Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the government for a redress of grievances.

Second Amendment: A well regulated militia, being necessary to the security of a free state, the right of the people to keep and bear arms, shall not be infringed.

The interesting thing to note is there are no exceptions or limiting language built into the First Amendment. In fact, the exceptions that we have for the regulation of free speech is a product of judicial activism. The first real exception was saying free speech doesn’t apply to commercial speech. The most famous exception is pornography although for all practical purposes that is dead unless it is something illegal. However, there are two big exceptions built into the Second Amendment. One it states a purpose a militia. Secondly, it says the militia has to be well regulated.


Quote

Originally posted by: Boilerman
I see. Free speech on the "public square" is unlimited, but if Boiler wishes to use a megaphone in front of AlanLeroy's house for one consistent year...................well that speech shouldn't be free and unlimited. In other words, if it's isn't bothering the Liberal, then the speech is acceptable and unlimited. If it his bothering the Liberal, then it should be limited.



Quote

Originally posted by: alanleroyII
Quote

Originally posted by: Boilerman
Alanleroy agrees that there are limitations to free speech. Authorities are limiting "free speech" of the street performers, and only allowing small spaces, limited times, and specific locations for them to "perform". This program was set up to protect the rights of the business owner and their employees. Can I set up camp on the sidewalk in front of Alanleroy's house and boom with a megaphone day after day, week after week, and month after month. I suspect that Alanleroy would demand to have this "speech" limited.

There have been court hearings and this is what was settled on. Fremont Street will be a better place for patrons, employees, and business owners beginning November 1.


1. There have been no 'court hearings' on this. You said a court decided it. Wrong again.
2. You have constantly said these people should be banned from Fremont Street....and it was not against their right to free speech to ban them.
3. You have been consistently wrong about this and it makes your statement about 'Liberals' only supporting parts of the constitution they agree with quite hypocritical.
4. I have never said there were no limits to free speech. I have said free speech in the public square is a right that should be supported by all Americans...whether they agree with what's being expressed or not. You're the one who wants to further limit free speech...You must not care much about our blessed constitution.




The militia was the common man back in the 1700's as most households had firearms. Some folks want this to mean only uniformed troops and police can have firearms and no one else. Since there wasn't a dedicated army, every able bodied man was asked to fight, kinda a kin to the old west posse.

Something to remember was all the stuff that led to the states breaking away from merry olde England. The colonists sent representatives to England to plead their case of having their viewpoints heard. The King needing the tax revenue ended up sending troops to force the colonists into submission. Since we did not have an army back then, we asked for volunteers to fight. (see above)

The Founding Fathers (who keep looking smarter every decade) wanted to ensure that we could take back our country if the current form of government had gotten too far out of hand. Ensuring the right to keep and bear arms was their way of doing it.




No, it wasn’t the common man. The amendment was passed because back when the colonies were in control of England the English confiscated the rifles belonging to members of the individual state militias and banned the part time soldiers from keeping their weapons in their homes out fear they would be used in a rebellion against English rule. The militias were akin to what we think of today as each state’s National Guard. The term “well regulated” indicates they didn’t want the common man possessing fire arms especially without regulation.

If you believe that the framers wanted the common man (rather than the individual state militias) to be able to take the government back, then every common man today should be in as a matter of right be entitled to possess a stockpile of Nuclear weapons and predator drones because without having the equivalent arms of the government the common man can't take back government.
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Originally posted by: Boilerman
I understand. If a Liberal is insulated, then unlimited free speech is acceptable.

Hey! I'm insulated from the Fremont Street performers because....wait for it....they don't bother me and if they did bother me, I can just ignore them. It's not rocket science. Just like I can ignore you if you start a protest movement in the middle of my rural street....But I'd rather turn that into another profitable business opportunity for me...just for the irony value.

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Originally posted by: malibber2
The interesting thing to note is there are no exceptions or limiting language built into the First Amendment. In fact, the exceptions that we have for the regulation of free speech are a product of judicial activism. The first real exception was saying free speech doesn’t apply to commercial speech. The most famous exception is pornography although for all practical purposes that is dead unless it is something illegal. However, there are two big exceptions built into the Second Amendment. One it states a purpose a militia. Secondly, it says the militia has to be well regulated.

The issue of the term "militia" within the Second Amendment was resolved contrary to malibber's opinion by the US Supreme Court in District of Columbia v. Heller, 2008.
"CONCLUSION
In a 5-4 decision, the Court held that the Second Amendment protects an individual right to possess a firearm unconnected with service in a militia, and to use that firearm for traditionally lawful purposes, such as self-defense within the home. The Court based its holding on the text of the Second Amendment, as well as applicable language in state constitutions adopted soon after the Second Amendment. Justice Antonin Scalia delivered the opinion of the Court. Justices John Paul Stevens and Stephen Breyer filed dissenting opinions, each joined by the other as well as Justices David Souter and Ruth Bader Ginsburg. Justice Stevens argued that the Second Amendment only protects the rights of individuals to bear arms as part of a well-regulated state militia, not for other purposes even if they are lawful. Justice Breyer agreed with Stevens' argument but also stated that even if possession were to be allowed for other reasons, any law regulating the use of firearms would have to be "unreasonable or inappropriate" to violate the Second Amendment. In Breyer's view, the D.C. laws at issue in this case were both reasonable and appropriate."
Ref: IIT Chicago - Kent College of Law

In McDonald v Chicago, 2010 the US Supreme Court clarified that the decision rendered in District of Columbia v. Heller holding that the Second Amendment was incorporated under the Fourteenth Amendment thus protecting those rights from infringement by local governments (i.e. States and Cities) as well as the Federal Government.
"CONCLUSION
The Supreme Court reversed the Seventh Circuit, holding that the Fourteenth Amendment makes the Second Amendment right to keep and bear arms for the purpose of self-defense applicable to the states. With Justice Samuel A. Alito writing for the majority, the Court reasoned that rights that are "fundamental to the Nation's scheme of ordered liberty" or that are "deeply rooted in this Nation's history and tradition" are appropriately applied to the states through the Fourteenth Amendment. The Court recognized in Heller that the right to self-defense was one such "fundamental" and "deeply rooted" right. The Court reasoned that because of its holding in Heller, the Second Amendment applied to the states. Here, the Court remanded the case to the Seventh Circuit to determine whether Chicago's handgun ban violated an individual's right to keep and bear arms for self-defense."
Ref: IIT Chicago - Kent College of Law
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