Las Vegas Advisor Menu
« LVA Forums « Vegas Free-for-All

Man Blows $1.5 Mil. On Faulty Credit Card

snidely333
snidely333
Jun 18, 2012
4:42am
Block User
Quote
Originally posted by: mrmarcus12LVA
Quote
Originally posted by: snidely333 Why would the bank knowingly allow this guy to take over a million dollars of their money?
Why should we dedicate our social resources to deciding that?? That's my point.

Quote
Originally posted by: snidely333 What telephone call are you alluding to?
The telephone call from reality, which says that banks SHOULD be aware of such withdrawals, and should implement appropriate systems AT THEIR OWN EXPENSE, not ours.


Yes, banks should be aware of such withdrawals. In this case they were not. Does this omission result in a windfall or criminal charges?

Are you saying that since banks are large corporations, any mistakes they make are their own fault and leave them with no recourse in criminal courts to press charges against those would steal from them? Do we admonish the homeowner and condone the burglar's behavior by telling the homeowner to get a better security system and stronger locks?
Don
Don
Jun 18, 2012
5:35am
Block User
From BAGIANT's link :
"Following the incident, Mr Page has been convicted of theft and is now awaiting sentencing on June 27th. However, prosecutors are recommending a lenient sentence of 15 months in jail for Ronald Page,as they believe he 'had a lapse of judgment and the bank was at fault for allowing this to happen.' "

The theft occurred in 2009. The legality of Mr. Page's action has already been decided; he is guilty of theft of bank funds. The prosecution has recommended leniency because they recognize the bank's shared-responsibility.

DonDiego does not know what civil damages Mr. Page may be legally held responsible for. If Mr. Page is subject to civil damages, DonDiego opines Mr. Page will be unable to pay the Bank of America back.




treegirl
treegirl
Jun 18, 2012
5:42am
Block User
This is from another site and there is also a news video.

"
DETROIT -
Ronald Page, a retired General Motors worker couldn't believe his luck recently.

With only a few hundred dollars in his bank account, Page used the ATM at a Detroit casino and it allowed him to make unlimited withdrawals.

The ATM spit it out whatever amount Page requested and the same thing happened when he made cash withdrawals at the casino window."


Link
marcisdave
marcisdave
Jun 18, 2012
8:25am
Block User
I had heard those Detroit area casinos are tight as hell........but losing 1.5 million dollars in 15 days ???

That's 100k per day ! Hopefully he got a buffet comp before being arrested

chefantwon
chefantwon
Jun 18, 2012
10:56am
Block User
Here's the poser:

At what point does a bank become responsible for NOT finding out they have a problem?

Remember, under the current banking regulations, the bank can make a mistake on your account and they have up to 30 days to fix it. You, on the other hand, DON'T get anywhere near that time to correct a mistake you made.

BAGIANT
BAGIANT
Jun 18, 2012
11:27am
Block User
Can you imagine how many points I could have racked up at the Silverton with that kind of money?
mrmarcus12LVA
mrmarcus12LVA
Jun 18, 2012
10:42pm
Block User
Quote
Originally posted by: snidely333 Do we admonish the homeowner and condone the burglar's behavior by telling the homeowner to get a better security system and stronger locks?
snidely333, you are apparently a person who is incapable of changing his mind. You pulled up a definition of theft, and then I pointed you straight at the issue: consent. The bank implemented a system by which it would consent. That system malfunctioned; the bank ACCIDENTALLY consented.

Is it our burden, as taxpayers, to remedy this? Should WE be responsible for convening a court of law, hiring a prosecutor, empanelling a jury, etc. etc. to determine, inter alia, the mental state and intentions of their customer at the time of the withdrawals? Isn't that their job? Isn't that what banks do????

Quote
Originally posted by: mrmarcus12LVA It is understood that creating and enforcing criminal statutes may be necessary to help advance technological change, mitigate risk, etc., but this is the type of transaction that the banks should be fully capable of policing on their own, by now.




snidely333
snidely333
Jun 18, 2012
11:52pm
Block User
Quote
Originally posted by: mrmarcus12LVA
Quote
Originally posted by: snidely333 Do we admonish the homeowner and condone the burglar's behavior by telling the homeowner to get a better security system and stronger locks?
snidely333, you are apparently a person who is incapable of changing his mind. You pulled up a definition of theft, and then I pointed you straight at the issue: consent. The bank implemented a system by which it would consent. That system malfunctioned; the bank ACCIDENTALLY consented.

Is it our burden, as taxpayers, to remedy this? Should WE be responsible for convening a court of law, hiring a prosecutor, empanelling a jury, etc. etc. to determine, inter alia, the mental state and intentions of their customer at the time of the withdrawals? Isn't that their job? Isn't that what banks do????

Quote
Originally posted by: mrmarcus12LVA It is understood that creating and enforcing criminal statutes may be necessary to help advance technological change, mitigate risk, etc., but this is the type of transaction that the banks should be fully capable of policing on their own, by now.


Instead of babbling about gasoline, you could have just wrote that you feel the bank is responsible for their mistake because they own the system and if the money spits out of the ATM then the bank consented. The gentleman in this case was following the rules of the system that the bank established to receive money from an ATM. Because he did not subvert any of the bank's systems, he did not break any laws.

If you deposit $100 and the bank credits you with $10,000 and you spend it... Guess what, you owe them back the money. The truth is that bank errors in your favor are not a windfall. That is the legal reality and, in my opinion, the correct from a moral perspective.
alanleroy
alanleroy
Jun 19, 2012
12:03am
Block User
Quote
Originally posted by: snidely333
If you deposit $100 and the bank credits you with $10,000 and you spend it... Guess what, you owe them back the money. The truth is that bank errors in your favor are not a windfall. That is the legal reality and, in my opinion, the correct from a moral perspective.

Right I don't think anyone's arguing the windfall was his to keep...but should the remedy be:

1. The bank sues you in Civil Court to get their money back
2. You get arrested and jailed for theft?

What if a bank sets a company's working capital line wrong and the company draws the limit on that LOC and then the bank discovers the error and demands the money back? The borrowing company has spent the money and can't pay it back....Should the officers of the drawing company be charged with Theft? Fraud?

snidely333
snidely333
Jun 19, 2012
1:15am
Block User
Quote
Originally posted by: alanleroy
Quote
Originally posted by: snidely333
If you deposit $100 and the bank credits you with $10,000 and you spend it... Guess what, you owe them back the money. The truth is that bank errors in your favor are not a windfall. That is the legal reality and, in my opinion, the correct from a moral perspective.

Right I don't think anyone's arguing the windfall was his to keep...but should the remedy be:

1. The bank sues you in Civil Court to get their money back
2. You get arrested and jailed for theft?

What if a bank sets a company's working capital line wrong and the company draws the limit on that LOC and then the bank discovers the error and demands the money back? The borrowing company has spent the money and can't pay it back....Should the officers of the drawing company be charged with Theft? Fraud?


I'm not sure MrMarcus's position on whether or not the man can keep the money as he argues that the bank consented to the withdrawal.

It's not criminal if the company's officers acted in good faith and were not aware of the bank's error.
Already a LVA subscriber?
To continue reading, choose an option below:
Diamond Membership
$3 per month
Unlimited access to LVA website
Exclusive subscriber-only content
Limited Member Rewards Online
Join Now
or
Platinum Membership
$50 per year
Unlimited access to LVA website
Exclusive subscriber-only content
Exclusive Member Rewards Book
Join Now