Muslim voter registration bus tour

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Originally posted by: forkushV
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Originally posted by: jatki99
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Originally posted by: jphelan
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Originally posted by: alanleroyII
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Originally posted by: pjstroh

....

The only reason I got involved in this thread was Forkush blamed 'Republicans' for poisoning the residents of Flint. I corrected him to say 'Bureaucrats' because I really didn't think any political party would be responsible for causing such grief and there had to be many mistakes by lots of people of both parties along the way. I'd be really interested in the opinions of Michigan residents....and how their political affiliation impacts their view of who's really to blame.


Wow - a voice of reason. Instead of blaming the situation on politics, I say follow the money. I expect there were payments made to people along the way and I also expect these people may have been of both parties (Republican and Democrat) and both races (Black and White).

But there is no sense letting a good crisis go the waste.


I agree 100%. Alan is very believable...
Why would anyone say that? When he claimed that the Flint River decision was made by the city council, he was untruthful. When he failed to admit he was wrong, he proved himself untrustworthy.



You lied when you started this whole topic, why the hell should anyone believe you. Also, did you see the part about agendas? You are the worst of them all when it comes to what you say.

OH and btw, speaking of those admitting when they're wrong, again you are the worst about that too, so you should never be deemed trustworthy again, by your reckoning, right? Heard about any 30 rd magazines killing anyone lately?
Next time our FOX News crowd cries bloody murder over Obama's executive orders lets remember this thread where they stand tall for a governor who actually kicked out democratically elected leaders in favor of someone he hand picked to do their job instead.

Here's a fascinating insight into the cast of characters involved on the scientific side of this crisis. It is full of mistakes and deception from the Michigan Department of Environmental Quality. Technocrats One and All.

Mistakes and Deception

Especially enlightening are these paragraphs.

"Lee-Anne Walters then called Edwards, and informed him that Del Toral would no longer be working on Flint water issues, and the two discussed the clear implication that EPA bureaucrats had intervened to prevent Del Toral from further exposing MDEQ’s numerous blunders and the health threat to Flint residents."


"If the MDEQ employees had expended 1% of their effort spent covering up problems, towards doing their job and installing corrosion control as the law required, the switch to Flint River would now have been deemed a success instead of the epic man-made disaster it is. At this point, it is has also become one of the most astonishing engineering and science ethics case studies in human history—right up there with the Washington D.C. Lead Crisis 2001-2004."

"Clearly, the MDEQ (Michigan Department of Environmental Quality), City of Flint and even the US EPA (Environmental Protection Agency) (with the obvious exception of Del Toral) have proved themselves unworthy of the public trust. Flint residents have been left to fend for themselves, when it comes to dealing with the dangers of high lead in their water."

The web site is from Dr. Marc Edwards' Virginia Tech team who blew the lid on this crisis as well as the Washington DC lead crisis of 2001 - 2004. Note how he doesn't place the blame on a political party but rather Institutional Scientific Misconduct by bureaucrats at agencies that are supposed to protect our citizens. There's your smoking gun.
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Originally posted by: alanleroyII
Here's a fascinating insight into the cast of characters involved on the scientific side of this crisis. It is full of mistakes and deception from the Michigan Department of Environmental Quality. Technocrats One and All.

Mistakes and Deception

Especially enlightening are these paragraphs.

"Lee-Anne Walters then called Edwards, and informed him that Del Toral would no longer be working on Flint water issues, and the two discussed the clear implication that EPA bureaucrats had intervened to prevent Del Toral from further exposing MDEQ’s numerous blunders and the health threat to Flint residents."
The head of the MDEQ, one of Governor Snyder's political appointees, knew about the water's possible connection with Legionnaire's Disease over a year ago. So did one of Governor Snyder's top political aides. And they did nothing, and they said nothing.

Likely ten people dead. Possibly thousands of children damaged. Probably hundreds of millions in damages. Due to criminal negligence by the governor's top advisers.

The governor should resign.


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Originally posted by: forkushV
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Originally posted by: alanleroyII
Here's a fascinating insight into the cast of characters involved on the scientific side of this crisis. It is full of mistakes and deception from the Michigan Department of Environmental Quality. Technocrats One and All.

Mistakes and Deception

Especially enlightening are these paragraphs.

"Lee-Anne Walters then called Edwards, and informed him that Del Toral would no longer be working on Flint water issues, and the two discussed the clear implication that EPA bureaucrats had intervened to prevent Del Toral from further exposing MDEQ’s numerous blunders and the health threat to Flint residents."
The head of the MDEQ, one of Governor Snyder's political appointees, knew about the water's possible connection with Legionnaire's Disease over a year ago. So did one of Governor Snyder's top political aides. And they did nothing, and they said nothing.

Likely ten people dead. Possibly thousands of children damaged. Probably hundreds of millions in damages. Due to criminal negligence by the governor's top advisers.

The governor should resign.




Of course forky doesn't include the group that "breaks" this news is the liberal group Progress Michigan.

"A spokesman for Snyder rejected the report by the liberal group Progress Michigan on Thursday. Emails obtained by the group show Snyder's principal aide, Harvey Hollins, was made aware of the outbreak and a possible link to the use of Flint River water last March..."
"..Hollins asked the department to investigate and if the concerns were credible it was to tell Snyder, the spokesman said in an email..."

"The issue was not brought to the Governor’s attention until January of this year," he said.


In forky world this source gets thrown out immediately and some other deceiving headline thrown in with it to try and discredit the source. I have a little more class than that and don't stoop to such shenanigans. For anyone that wants to check out Progress Michigan can do so themselves.
https://www.progressmichigan.org/


https://www.reuters.com/article/us-michigan-water-idUSKCN0VD2Q3
Every single person who had a chance to stop the massive deficit spending during Obama's first year were Democrats, yet Forkie tells us that the deficit is Bush's fault.

Interesting.


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Originally posted by: forkushV
Every single person who had authority to approve the Flint River plan, EVERY SINGLE ONE WITHOUT EXCEPTION was working for the governor. EXACTLY ZERO were locally elected officials or their employees. The governor's appointee in Flint knew about it over a year ago, and did nothing. Some of the governor's appointees were informed of the problem over a year ago, and said nothing, and did nothing.

At best it was criminal negligence. It will probably cost hundreds of millions of dollars to ameliorate. It has and will continue to cost a great deal of human suffering.

The governor needs to resign.


Maybe we someone with a Business background running the government instead of career bureaucrats.....
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Originally posted by: jatki99
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Originally posted by: forkushV
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Originally posted by: alanleroyII
Here's a fascinating insight into the cast of characters involved on the scientific side of this crisis. It is full of mistakes and deception from the Michigan Department of Environmental Quality. Technocrats One and All.

Mistakes and Deception

Especially enlightening are these paragraphs.

"Lee-Anne Walters then called Edwards, and informed him that Del Toral would no longer be working on Flint water issues, and the two discussed the clear implication that EPA bureaucrats had intervened to prevent Del Toral from further exposing MDEQ’s numerous blunders and the health threat to Flint residents."
The head of the MDEQ, one of Governor Snyder's political appointees, knew about the water's possible connection with Legionnaire's Disease over a year ago. So did one of Governor Snyder's top political aides. And they did nothing, and they said nothing.

Likely ten people dead. Possibly thousands of children damaged. Probably hundreds of millions in damages. Due to criminal negligence by the governor's top advisers.

The governor should resign.




Of course forky doesn't include the group that "breaks" this news is the liberal group Progress Michigan...
The source for my claim is Reuters - jatki, maybe you've heard of them. In contrast, alanleroy's source was the guy that is being "hunted down" by a House committee. Oh, and jatki, you're the guy who uses sources who claim that Obama is the first gay president.

Again, it was Reuters who reported and verified the story that a partisan source posted on their website. Oh, and I was wrong when I said it was sent over a year ago - it was more like eleven months. Here's the email:



Even thought the email and several others was sent to two of his appointees, the governor says he never heard about it until ten months later. Either the governor is lying or he's made some incredibly bad appointments that he refuses to fess up to. He's go to go.
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Originally posted by: jphelan
Maybe we someone with a Business background running the government instead of career bureaucrats.....
George W. Bush, the MBA president!

How'd that work out?
Malibber conducted Alan’s research for him today in hopes that he will use it to educate himself. Malibber notes this research turned up that Darnell Early (Alan’s fall guy) was Flint’s 4th emergency manager.

First up, the special state prosecutor said today that elected officials (Republicans) may face manslaughter charges. Malibber hopes any such charges include the governor. Malibber also notes the Federal Government is investigating as well and criminal charges may be brought there too. The state special prosecutor also said he would seek restitution from state officials. Malibber advises Michigan taxpayers to get their wallets out.
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“We’re here to investigate what possible crimes there are, anything to the involuntary manslaughter or death that may have happened to some young person or old person because of this poisoning, to misconduct in office,” he said. “


Source:
https://www.detroitnews.com/story/news/michigan/flint-water-crisis/2016/02/09/flood-manslaughter-charge-possible-flint-water-case/80063354/

Here is a timeline for Alan:
11/29/11 - Governor Snyder appoints Michael Brown as Flint’s first emergency manager. He is an old white guy.
8/8/12 - Governor Snyder appoints another old white guy, Ed Kurtz, as emergency manager.
3/25/13 – Flint City Council votes to join a new water system although they had no authority under the Emergency Manger Law to do so. They did not vote to get water from the Flint river.
4/16/13 – Unelected Ed Kurtz signs a contract obligating the city of Flint to join a new water system.
4/17/13 – Detroit notifies Flint it needs to negotiate a short term contract with them if they want to continue to use their water while the new system is being built.
6/26/13 – Unelected Ed Kurtz hires an engineering firm to begin planning getting water from the Flint River.
6/30/13 – Ed Kurtz resigns.
7/8/13 – Old white guy Michael Brown is appointed Emergency Manager by Governor Snyder for the second time.
9/11/13 Old white guy Michael Brown resigns as Emergency Manager.
10/1/13 Governor Snyder appoints Darnell Early as Emergency Manager.
3/7/14 – Early turns down Detroit’s offer to sell Flint water as an interim solution.
4/9/14 – State Environmental Regulators (Part of the Snyder Administration) gives Flint approval to use Flint River water.
4/25/14 – Flint starts drawing its water from the Flint River, and residents complain about the smell and color of the water immediately. By June several residents are complaining the water is making them or a family member sick.
8/14/14 – Flint water tests positive for E. coli and boil advisories are issued. The advisories continue off and on until 9/9/14.
10/13/14 – GM announces it will quit using Flint Water in its engine plant as the city’s water is corroding its industrial machinery.
1/2/15 – Flint is found to be in violation of the Safe Water Drinking Act.
1/9/15 – The University of Michigan finds the water on their Flint campus to have high levels of lead.
1/11/15 – Elected City Council members ask the Emergency Manger to switch the water back over to Detroit and he says no because it would cost too much.
1/13/15 - Darnell Early leaves as Flint’s Emergency Manager to become the Emergency Manager of Detroit Public Schools. Governor Snyder appoints Jerry Ambrose, an old white guy, as Emergency Manager.
2/25/15 – Tests the city conduct find a high level of lead in a Flint resident’s home.
2/27/15 – The EPA asks Michigan about its anti-corrosive treatment process in Flint. A Snyder administration official responds in writing saying they are treating the water with phosphates and that they have a comprehensive corrosion control plan in place. In fact there was no plan in place, and they weren’t treating the water.
4/29/15 - Emergency Manager Jerry Ambrose resigns.

Source:
https://michiganradio.org/post/timeline-heres-how-flint-water-crisis-unfolded#stream/0

As to the argument that the Emergency Manager system is just like Bankruptcy. It is not. However, for now I will let that ultra-liberal rag, Forbes, describe how that law works. They say it is an affront to the democratic process.
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In 2012, the Snyder administration shepherded through the Michigan Legislature a bill reinstating—after a state-wide referendum rejected a similar provision in 2011— a law allowing “emergency managers” to take over financially challenged municipalities and school boards. The objective of the law was to empower officials to cut costs.

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The American system of government is a democracy—a system where government is for the people and by the people, typically through elected representatives. State officials in Michigan undermined this core principle and left the citizens of Flint subject to decisions by unelected representatives who were not accountable to them.

Source:
https://www.forbes.com/sites/thebakersinstitute/2016/02/09/flint-michigan-an-affront-to-the-democratic-process/#3f2129af1238
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