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Nationwide Crime Wave

Boilerman
Boilerman
Jun 2, 2015
7:39am
Block User
The proof is in the pudding!



Quote
Originally posted by: pjstroh
Quote
Originally posted by: Boilerman
Obama and Holder and other black leaders have taken a blatant anti-police stance. Others have followed as was seen with the Baltimore mayor. Police are concerned that if they take a tough stance against criminals, that politicians will not back them. In fact, some police believe that politicians will go after them legally, using them as pawns to gain votes and support from the black community. Anyone with half a brain saw this jump in crime coming.

As my mom used to say, the proof is in the pudding.



Boilerman vocablulary 101 "Anti police stance" : prosecuting cops accussed of murdering unarmed suspects.


---unless its a racist, white bigot in Nevada. Then its ok to blast law enforcement for even unholstering their guns:
Boilerman's anti-police rant about cops showing their guns at the Bundy Ranch
"I believe that I've seen one officer in my entire life pull his gun. This was at the Golden Nugget, interestingly enough.

The unusual thing at Bundy's ranch wasn't the fact that cops had guns, but the fact they they literally took an agressive stance. That they pulled and pointed their guns. That they implied potential deathly ramifications."


jatki
jatki
Jun 2, 2015
7:40am
Block User
Quote
Originally posted by: forkushV
Quote
Originally posted by: jatki99
Quote
Originally posted by: forkushV
Quote
Originally posted by: DonDiego
Quote
Originally posted by: forkushV
Quote
Originally posted by: hoops2
"Wait, are you really saying that schools that pick and choose the very best students with the most motivated parents actually get higher test scores??????"

As usual forky is wrong. Student at NYC charter schools are chosen by lottery. Anybody can apply & students are accepted covering the full range of aptitude.
And then they expel kids at double the rate of regular public schools. And they end up with better behaved students and, amazingly enough, higher test scores.
[No reference, . . .as usual - DD]

******quote***
Schools say suspensions maintain order, keep children safe, and allow teachers to focus on instruction by removing the most distracting students. Strict discipline has long been a cornerstone of the charter-school movement, and supporters argue that those policies have led to better academic outcomes for a majority of their students.
“Many families are flocking to charter schools, and one reason is that they believe in stricter discipline,” said Eva Moskowitz, founder and CEO of Success Academy, whose nine schools in 2011-12 suspended 17 percent of their students at least once. “Having some kids miss a day of instruction here and there for a suspension is far outweighed by the benefits of learning in an orderly environment all of the other days, as our academic results prove.”
***endquote***
Ref: ny.chalkbeat.org

Perhaps if the "regular public schools" expelled/suspended more violators their students would also demonstrate better behavior and higher test scores. Those not suspended would get a better education.
DonDiego, a suspension just means some kids miss a day of instruction here and there. But when students get EXPELLED from charter schools they are removed from their school forever (and probably shuttled back to a public school - resulting in lower test scores for them). Anyone who would conflate the two to win an internet argument is fundamentally dishonest.

So I think you should revise your post.


Forky's right, the troublemakers should be allowed to stay, why not. Who cares if it's at the expense of all the others there trying to actually learn and not raise hell.
You're being dimmer than usual, which is saying a lot. My point was that expelling students is the charter school post facto way of picking and choosing the better students. Serving the same demographics, charter schools do worse than regular public schools.

Of course getting rid of weaker performers is not necessarily a bad thing, as long as it's done equitably. For example, in the 1990's when they got rid of of those losers, weaklings, and dim bulbs in our military, that improved our fighting forces considerably. (And that, jatki, is what you get for going all straw man on me.)


Really? Kids who get expelled are always poor test takers? Source? Methinks You are making shit up as usual.

My mom (and two friends, two years) taught at inner city schools, my mom 20 years until she could get her pension. The storys I heard made me cringe, students getting in my moms face and saying F you Ms. C----. Sent to the office, back in class five minutes later. It would disrupt the entire class period. All three of these people were so ultra liberal when they entered the inner city system and had so completely changed their tune after they got out. I never ever heard them use the word nigger, EVER, but afterwards, it slipped out of two of them. Talk about shocked.

Like I said, I don't think you have any idea what you are talking about.
Boilerman
Boilerman
Jun 2, 2015
7:46am
Block User
Rewarding the worst performers always ends with disaster.


Quote
Originally posted by: forkushV
Quote
Originally posted by: jatki99
Quote
Originally posted by: forkushV
Quote
Originally posted by: DonDiego
Quote
Originally posted by: forkushV
Quote
Originally posted by: hoops2
"Wait, are you really saying that schools that pick and choose the very best students with the most motivated parents actually get higher test scores??????"

As usual forky is wrong. Student at NYC charter schools are chosen by lottery. Anybody can apply & students are accepted covering the full range of aptitude.
And then they expel kids at double the rate of regular public schools. And they end up with better behaved students and, amazingly enough, higher test scores.
[No reference, . . .as usual - DD]

******quote***
Schools say suspensions maintain order, keep children safe, and allow teachers to focus on instruction by removing the most distracting students. Strict discipline has long been a cornerstone of the charter-school movement, and supporters argue that those policies have led to better academic outcomes for a majority of their students.
“Many families are flocking to charter schools, and one reason is that they believe in stricter discipline,” said Eva Moskowitz, founder and CEO of Success Academy, whose nine schools in 2011-12 suspended 17 percent of their students at least once. “Having some kids miss a day of instruction here and there for a suspension is far outweighed by the benefits of learning in an orderly environment all of the other days, as our academic results prove.”
***endquote***
Ref: ny.chalkbeat.org

Perhaps if the "regular public schools" expelled/suspended more violators their students would also demonstrate better behavior and higher test scores. Those not suspended would get a better education.
DonDiego, a suspension just means some kids miss a day of instruction here and there. But when students get EXPELLED from charter schools they are removed from their school forever (and probably shuttled back to a public school - resulting in lower test scores for them). Anyone who would conflate the two to win an internet argument is fundamentally dishonest.

So I think you should revise your post.


Forky's right, the troublemakers should be allowed to stay, why not. Who cares if it's at the expense of all the others there trying to actually learn and not raise hell.
You're being dimmer than usual, which is saying a lot. My point was that expelling students is the charter school post facto way of picking and choosing the better students. Serving the same demographics, charter schools do worse than regular public schools.

Of course getting rid of weaker performers is not necessarily a bad thing, as long as it's done equitably. For example, in the 1990's when they got rid of of those losers, weaklings, and dim bulbs in our military, that improved our fighting forces considerably. (And that, jatki, is what you get for going all straw man on me.)


hoops2
hoops2
Jun 2, 2015
9:30am
Block User
Quote
Originally posted by: hoops2
And what are the expulsion rates in NYC?


forky - what are those expulsion rates? My wife is a teacher & we get all the anti-charter school stuff & nowhere do they mention expulsion rates. If they were truly as high as forky claims we would see it in their publications

Alan - There are 163,000 students in NYC on the charter school waiting list. Alan has a good idea but I don't think there are enough boarding schools to even cover NYC.

Charter schools provide a positive learning environment & the results speak for themselves.


chefantwon
chefantwon
Jun 2, 2015
9:47am
Block User
Please Forkie tell me how throwing MORE money at the issue will help the kids?

forkushV
forkushV
Jun 2, 2015
10:17am
Block User
Quote
Originally posted by: chefantwon
Please Forkie tell me how throwing MORE money at the issue will help the kids?
Less money.

  • The woman that DonDiego quoted makes $500,000 per year, courtesy of taxpayers, for supervising only nine schools.
  • On average charter schools spend less on education and more on administration.
  • Lenders get massive taxpayer funded tax breaks lending to charter schools.
  • Charter schools have been involved in numerous financial scandals, stealing taxpayer dollars.

    And they perform worse with the same demographic than public schools. They are Halliburton and Blackwater all over again, supported by people who want to starve out government workers, but have no problem throwing money at government contractors.
    • chefantwon
    chefantwon
    Jun 2, 2015
    10:51am
    Block User
    Quote
    Originally posted by: forkushV
    Quote
    Originally posted by: chefantwon
    Please Forkie tell me how throwing MORE money at the issue will help the kids?
    Less money.

  • The woman that DonDiego quoted makes $500,000 per year, courtesy of taxpayers, for supervising only nine schools.
  • On average charter schools spend less on education and more on administration.
  • Lenders get massive taxpayer funded tax breaks lending to charter schools.
  • Charter schools have been involved in numerous financial scandals, stealing taxpayer dollars.

    And they perform worse with the same demographic than public schools. They are Halliburton and Blackwater all over again, supported by people who want to starve out government workers, but have no problem throwing money at government contractors.


    • Our local charter schools tend to do better than the public schools. How does this happen?
    forkushV
    forkushV
    Jun 2, 2015
    2:08pm
    Block User
    Quote
    Originally posted by: chefantwon
    Quote
    Originally posted by: forkushV
    Quote
    Originally posted by: chefantwon
    Please Forkie tell me how throwing MORE money at the issue will help the kids?
    Less money.

  • The woman that DonDiego quoted makes $500,000 per year, courtesy of taxpayers, for supervising only nine schools.
  • On average charter schools spend less on education and more on administration.
  • Lenders get massive taxpayer funded tax breaks lending to charter schools.
  • Charter schools have been involved in numerous financial scandals, stealing taxpayer dollars.

    And they perform worse with the same demographic than public schools. They are Halliburton and Blackwater all over again, supported by people who want to starve out government workers, but have no problem throwing money at government contractors.


    • Our local charter schools tend to do better than the public schools. How does this happen?
    Maybe your local charter school is the exception to the rule. You know, one in every six charter schools do outperform public schools in math.
    jatki
    jatki
    Jun 2, 2015
    3:39pm
    Block User
    As Violence Spikes in Some Cities, Is 'Ferguson Effect' to Blame?

    https://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news/violence-spikes-some-cities-ferguson-effect-blame-n368526

    "Last month, authorities in Dallas noticed an uptick in violence that threatened to spoil the city's decade-long drop in crime.

    Police Chief David Brown, an architect of the historic decline, responded by redeploying more officers into high-crime areas, noting that there was still plenty of time to turn things around.
    "...Police around the country are finding themselves in a similar pinch. Violent crime — killings, robberies, rapes and assaults — is rising in half of the 10 biggest U.S. cities, including Los Angeles, where the rate is up 25 percent. Murders are up in four of the biggest cities, most notably New York, the nation's poster child for crime reduction.

    "After years of declining rates in nearly every big city, we're now seeing many cities break that trend and begin climbing back up," said Richard Rosenfeld, a University of Missouri at St. Louis criminologist and one of the country's leading researchers on crime rates.."
    "...But police tactics have taken on new power in the past year, as many communities have protested aggressive anti-crime techniques, including stop-and-frisk and the use of force. That backlash, which turned violent in Baltimore and Ferguson, Missouri, has sparked police slowdowns, which in turn has been blamed for upticks in crime. St. Louis Police Chief Sam Dotson has called it the "Ferguson effect.".."
    "..Following riots in Baltimore, arrests plummeted and while homicides hit a 40-year mark. Makes ya wonder, huh?

    Similar things may be happening in some of the bigger cities suffering through spikes in violence.."





















    '

    jatki
    jatki
    Jun 2, 2015
    4:00pm
    Block User
    Quote
    Originally posted by: hoops2
    Quote
    Originally posted by: hoops2
    And what are the expulsion rates in NYC?


    forky - what are those expulsion rates? My wife is a teacher & we get all the anti-charter school stuff & nowhere do they mention expulsion rates. If they were truly as high as forky claims we would see it in their publications

    Alan - There are 163,000 students in NYC on the charter school waiting list. Alan has a good idea but I don't think there are enough boarding schools to even cover NYC.

    Charter schools provide a positive learning environment & the results speak for themselves.


    Forky doesn't know, as I said before, he was pulling shit out his ass.

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