Nearing Completion of Evaluation of RS system (not)

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Originally posted by: DonDiego
Quote

Originally posted by: FrankKneeland
I have not been eaten alive, but I'd be lying if I didn't say my faith in the human spirit had not waned a tad.
This jes' don't sound right.

: : : : : EDITED TO ADD : : : : :

Perhaps LVAers can argue about it.


I have little doubt that LVAers can argue about almost anything. That was the point and the source of my faith reduction.

These forums are like Euclidean geometry without axioms.
Quote

Originally posted by: FrankKneeland
Quote

Originally posted by: DonDiego
Quote

Originally posted by: FrankKneeland
I have not been eaten alive, but I'd be lying if I didn't say my faith in the human spirit had not waned a tad.
This jes' don't sound right.

: : : : : EDITED TO ADD : : : : :

Perhaps LVAers can argue about it.


I have little doubt that LVAers can argue about almost anything. That was the point and the source of my faith reduction.

These forums are like Euclidean geometry without axioms.


There you go again, referencing dead people.
Quote

Originally posted by: snidely333
Quote

Originally posted by: FrankKneeland
Quote

Originally posted by: DonDiego
Quote

Originally posted by: FrankKneeland
I have not been eaten alive, but I'd be lying if I didn't say my faith in the human spirit had not waned a tad.
This jes' don't sound right.

: : : : : EDITED TO ADD : : : : :

Perhaps LVAers can argue about it.


I have little doubt that LVAers can argue about almost anything. That was the point and the source of my faith reduction.

These forums are like Euclidean geometry without axioms.


There you go again, referencing dead people.


You could have done better snidley. I was referencing deed people that dressed weird, drank a lot of wine and liked to bugger little boys as long as they didn't have facial hair.

According to Stobaeus, “some one who had begun to read geometry with Euclid, when he had learnt the first theorem, asked Euclid, ‘But what shall I get by-learning these things?’ Euclid called his slave and said ‘Give him three pence, since he must make gain out of what he learns.’”
Euclid, Elements (ed. Thomas L. Heath)
Quote

Originally posted by: FrankKneeland
Quote

Originally posted by: DonDiego
Quote

Originally posted by: FrankKneeland
I have not been eaten alive, but I'd be lying if I didn't say my faith in the human spirit had not waned a tad.
This jes' don't sound right.

: : : : : EDITED TO ADD : : : : :

Perhaps LVAers can argue about it.


I have little doubt that LVAers can argue about almost anything. That was the point and the source of my faith reduction.

These forums are like Euclidean geometry without axioms.
No, No, No !

DonDiego has not made himself clear: It is axiomatic that one cannot be lying if one is not saying something.


I did not realize this week was thanksgiving. I'll be busy with the holidays and will resume the RS thing next week.
I saw a2a3dseddie post the last set of answers from Alan's site, so here's the newest from Singer.

I'll answer both this issue and the one about LVA questions here.

Snidely/Lloyd: I retired my website when I retired from professional gambling upon reaching 60. I do not keep a site like AC's because I don't need the money. AC, however was/is an AP, and just like Dancer, AP's will work on and on as long as an income will keep gambling money in their pockets. Either that, or they will play 25c and sometimes dollars to get their fix like arci finds himself doing alone at ridiculous Indian casinos these days.

Special Plays: Alan's on the right track in that they are not used all the time. For instance, In any-paytable DDBP when dealt 2266X, I will hold just the 2's but only within my last 100 out of 300 credits. There are other variations and even some that are denomination-dependent based on where I am in my yearly win goal attainment, so it is not as clear cut as asserted by the critics who have little overall knowledge of how I do what I do.

Alan: My largest session loss was about $34,000, and my single largest session win was around $94,000 thanks to a $25 RF.

Someone who wondered why use such a large bankroll to win "so little" : It has to do with odds. My study came up with a 5%-of-session-bankroll win goal as being very attainable, and my overall gambling bankroll was 3X that, or $171.200. This is not a rich man using spare change to gamble with. It's what a normal video poker player who wants to win consistently would be smart to save up prior to becoming a professional gambler.

Blind, anonymous Critics: For the 100th time, yes the losses can be big and some were, but there were far more large winners and of course, many many smaller winners in the $2500 - $5000 range. And this was exactly as the strategy was developed to perform.

Arci: I've never won 247 out of 250 nor have I ever reported such a thing in my Gaming Today column or in my site statistics. Overall, this strategy has a better than 85% win rate, and for the crackpot critics once again, the large infrequent losers are way overcome by the far more frequent very large winners. And arci, please go to bed and get some rest. You need it at your age and with what's happenning up there. No need to keep lying about me or my strategy because if you can't tell yet, no one really reads the same baloney you write anymore. OMG! So what's a lonely old man to do if not this!?

_________________________________________________________________________________________

Here's a description of my play strategy--one which Fedomalley, aka "Dan" would have done himself and his fans a favor reading up on when he made his ill-advised challenge for low stakes--then ran for the hills when I fixed it for him.


Bankroll = $57,200. Denominations & #of credits used: $1/$2/$5/$10/$25/$100, with 100 credits played on BP & 300 credits played on preferably SDBP at each denomination. Goals: $2500 minimum win goal; cashing out on each game whenever ahead by a minimum of 40 credits within that denomination. Next session played when? Anytime I chose, however, I only played once a week because I had to drive from Phoenix. I never played more than one of these on a single trip, because it made no sense to try and be greedy when a goal was already attained.


You begin playing 100 credits on $1BP. Get ahead by minimum 40 credits and you cash out the 40(+) credits, put it into soft profit which will never be risked, then start again. Lose the 100 credits then play 300 credits of SDBP. In order to cashout 40+ credits here you must get ahead by that many (be at minimum 340), put that 40 into soft profit, then start on SDBP with 300 credits again. Your first (mini) goal is to get back to $1BP, but you can only do that if and when you recover the 100 credits ($100) you lost on $1BP PLUS attain a minimum 40 credit profit while playing within your 300 SDBP credits (which always goes into the soft profit pool, and it does not turn into true profit until it reaches at least $2500).

If you lose the 300 credits on $1SDBP you play 100 credits on $2BP. Here, regardless of how much soft profit you've accumulated, you need to cash out each time you get at least 40 credits ahead (i.e., have at least 140) and again, your first goal is to get back to BP on the level immediately preceeding the denomination you're now playing. Just as in any denomination of BP, you can cash out as many 40+ soft profits as possible, always remembering that you can only go back to $1BP if and when you recover the 400 credits ($400) lost on dollars PLUS attain at least a 40 credit profit (which is a minimum $80 here). If you lose the 100 credits at $2BP, you play 300 credits on $2SDBP, and you follow the exact same rules as you did on $1SDBP.

Lose your 300 $2SDBP credits then you play 100 credits on $5BP, using the same 40+ credit cashout rules as earlier. Here, your #1 mini goal is to get back to $2BP, so you must recover all 400 credits lost on $2 ($800--or 160 credits on $5) PLUS attain at least a 40 credit soft profit for the soft profit pool.

Play continues on in the same exact manner throughout the denominations until either the soft profit pool totals $2500 or greater - or you get a jackpot hit that surpasses the session win goal so you can go home until you return to the casinos to re-start the strategy all over again.

This is a strategy that does not require a RF in order to have a winning year. I've had as few as 2 and as many as 8 each year in everything (combined) but the $100 denomination, and I've won every year I played. TextText

For clarification in the 2nd to last paragraph and because it doesn't allow me to edit, when the soft profit pool reaches at least $2500 you do stop, but only if you have also recovered all of your losses. And, once you reach the $100 machines and you do not achieve your minimum $2500 win goal, you stop and go home. Your loss will be the $57,200 minus the soft profit pool--which can be 5 figures at times.

One additional point: My strategy also has a stop-limit at the $25 machines only if your YTD winnings are ahead of your monthly pace. This is common.

Interesting.
Somewhat curious how often the $2500 "win goal" is attained with soft profits on the $1.00 level. Or $2.00 level. without hitting the RF.

oops. double posted.

Just reading that "system" gives me a headache. If I could understand it I might try it starting with nickels and ending at $5.
As a curious sidenote, both "Singer" and "Dancer" are in almost complete disagreement with each other on EVERY video poker issue with one exception; they both advocate blithely walking into a casino willing to lose tens of thousands of dollars in a single day. Such is the full confidence in their "systems".
Not me baby-I'm sticking to low stakes and enjoying that free booze.


Quote

Originally posted by: Normscash
I saw a2a3dseddie post the last set of answers from Alan's site, so here's the newest from Singer.

I'll answer both this issue and the one about LVA questions here.

Snidely/Lloyd: I retired my website when I retired from professional gambling upon reaching 60. I do not keep a site like AC's because I don't need the money. AC, however was/is an AP, and just like Dancer, AP's will work on and on as long as an income will keep gambling money in their pockets. Either that, or they will play 25c and sometimes dollars to get their fix like arci finds himself doing alone at ridiculous Indian casinos these days.

Special Plays: Alan's on the right track in that they are not used all the time. For instance, In any-paytable DDBP when dealt 2266X, I will hold just the 2's but only within my last 100 out of 300 credits. There are other variations and even some that are denomination-dependent based on where I am in my yearly win goal attainment, so it is not as clear cut as asserted by the critics who have little overall knowledge of how I do what I do.

Alan: My largest session loss was about $34,000, and my single largest session win was around $94,000 thanks to a $25 RF.

Someone who wondered why use such a large bankroll to win "so little" : It has to do with odds. My study came up with a 5%-of-session-bankroll win goal as being very attainable, and my overall gambling bankroll was 3X that, or $171.200. This is not a rich man using spare change to gamble with. It's what a normal video poker player who wants to win consistently would be smart to save up prior to becoming a professional gambler.

Blind, anonymous Critics: For the 100th time, yes the losses can be big and some were, but there were far more large winners and of course, many many smaller winners in the $2500 - $5000 range. And this was exactly as the strategy was developed to perform.

Arci: I've never won 247 out of 250 nor have I ever reported such a thing in my Gaming Today column or in my site statistics. Overall, this strategy has a better than 85% win rate, and for the crackpot critics once again, the large infrequent losers are way overcome by the far more frequent very large winners. And arci, please go to bed and get some rest. You need it at your age and with what's happenning up there. No need to keep lying about me or my strategy because if you can't tell yet, no one really reads the same baloney you write anymore. OMG! So what's a lonely old man to do if not this!?

_________________________________________________________________________________________

Here's a description of my play strategy--one which Fedomalley, aka "Dan" would have done himself and his fans a favor reading up on when he made his ill-advised challenge for low stakes--then ran for the hills when I fixed it for him.


Bankroll = $57,200. Denominations & #of credits used: $1/$2/$5/$10/$25/$100, with 100 credits played on BP & 300 credits played on preferably SDBP at each denomination. Goals: $2500 minimum win goal; cashing out on each game whenever ahead by a minimum of 40 credits within that denomination. Next session played when? Anytime I chose, however, I only played once a week because I had to drive from Phoenix. I never played more than one of these on a single trip, because it made no sense to try and be greedy when a goal was already attained.


You begin playing 100 credits on $1BP. Get ahead by minimum 40 credits and you cash out the 40(+) credits, put it into soft profit which will never be risked, then start again. Lose the 100 credits then play 300 credits of SDBP. In order to cashout 40+ credits here you must get ahead by that many (be at minimum 340), put that 40 into soft profit, then start on SDBP with 300 credits again. Your first (mini) goal is to get back to $1BP, but you can only do that if and when you recover the 100 credits ($100) you lost on $1BP PLUS attain a minimum 40 credit profit while playing within your 300 SDBP credits (which always goes into the soft profit pool, and it does not turn into true profit until it reaches at least $2500).

If you lose the 300 credits on $1SDBP you play 100 credits on $2BP. Here, regardless of how much soft profit you've accumulated, you need to cash out each time you get at least 40 credits ahead (i.e., have at least 140) and again, your first goal is to get back to BP on the level immediately preceeding the denomination you're now playing. Just as in any denomination of BP, you can cash out as many 40+ soft profits as possible, always remembering that you can only go back to $1BP if and when you recover the 400 credits ($400) lost on dollars PLUS attain at least a 40 credit profit (which is a minimum $80 here). If you lose the 100 credits at $2BP, you play 300 credits on $2SDBP, and you follow the exact same rules as you did on $1SDBP.

Lose your 300 $2SDBP credits then you play 100 credits on $5BP, using the same 40+ credit cashout rules as earlier. Here, your #1 mini goal is to get back to $2BP, so you must recover all 400 credits lost on $2 ($800--or 160 credits on $5) PLUS attain at least a 40 credit soft profit for the soft profit pool.

Play continues on in the same exact manner throughout the denominations until either the soft profit pool totals $2500 or greater - or you get a jackpot hit that surpasses the session win goal so you can go home until you return to the casinos to re-start the strategy all over again.

This is a strategy that does not require a RF in order to have a winning year. I've had as few as 2 and as many as 8 each year in everything (combined) but the $100 denomination, and I've won every year I played. TextText

For clarification in the 2nd to last paragraph and because it doesn't allow me to edit, when the soft profit pool reaches at least $2500 you do stop, but only if you have also recovered all of your losses. And, once you reach the $100 machines and you do not achieve your minimum $2500 win goal, you stop and go home. Your loss will be the $57,200 minus the soft profit pool--which can be 5 figures at times.

One additional point: My strategy also has a stop-limit at the $25 machines only if your YTD winnings are ahead of your monthly pace. This is common.

Interesting.


Quote

Originally posted by: melbedewy
Just reading that "system" gives me a headache. If I could understand it I might try it starting with nickels and ending at $5.
As a curious sidenote, both "Singer" and "Dancer" are in almost complete disagreement with each other on EVERY video poker issue with one exception; they both advocate blithely walking into a casino willing to lose tens of thousands of dollars in a single day. Such is the full confidence in their "systems".
Not me baby-I'm sticking to low stakes and enjoying that free booze.



DEFINITION OF SYSTEM

You could have left the word "almost" off this statement and ended with "complete disagreement". I'm surprised that you think of what Bob advocates as a "system" or "his system" at all. Normal advantage players, of which Bob is a member, base their play off what math says should be the best way to prosecute a gambling career. How they play does not belong to them nor can it be labeled as theirs, and the only real area one has personal control in advantage play is setting the criteria for what one will and won't play...which again is usually the product of a mathematical equation.

Sure Bob's written modern books on the subject, but he hasn't introduced anything new in the way of math that Cardano, Pascal, Huygens, Bernoulli, Fermat, Bayes, etc...didn't beat him to by several hundred years. Probability math saw almost all of its major developments between the mid 1600's and the late 1700's and has seen only light addition since with things like Game Theory and the Bell Curve in the last hundred years.

How Bob plays is identical to how I and all the pro gamblers I know play, none of whom follow Bob or have read his books, or been to his classes...only his choice of what to play diverges slightly. (I went to a couple of his classes when we did the radio show together and was amazed how similar our systems were given independent creation)

I refuse to play things that are less than a 2% edge, and I like a high equivalence assurance, which I usually achieve by partnering and sharing action.

Bob has not had the benefit of being part of a large team, so he tends to set his play criteria far lower than what I would consider to be a play.

If you think Bob has a "system", you must have missed a few math classes in school. Go back blow the dust off your high-school text books and after studying basic probability math make your own system. It will end up being the same as Bob's.

Oh and then wait for slightly bigger edges. He does play some scary high fluctuation stuff that I wouldn't touch. Of course his BR warrants it. So for him it is not as risky. What one should and can play given a certain bankroll is also a mathematical calculation.

Bob may blithely walk into a casino and lose thousands because his bankroll warrants play on such games, which he can also win thousands on as well. I have never heard him advocate such behavior for those with dissimilar bankrolls. I have heard him implore people not to play over their heads and factor in their bankroll when determining what they should play. How you got "throwing caution to the wind" out of anything he has said is beyond me.

Singer has a "system". Bob does not. Unless you consider using equations to calculate game odds to be one. If so, it is certainly not Bob's. It's the difference between a discovery and an invention in science. No one invented the periodic table...which is why we don't call it the "Dmitri Mendeleev System".

Happy Turkey Day Everyone.
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