Nearing Completion of Evaluation of RS system (not)

I don't want to be viewed as Singer's spokesman but let me REPORT my understanding of his system and then
you guys are free to rip it apart.

1. He believes you can never win over the long term playing a VP game with a negative paytable.

2. There are two few positive paytables around at higher denominations to make what he calls the grind worthwhile.

3. He plays various bonus games with big pays on quads and aces which come more often than royals, obviously, since only a royal makes a positive paytable positive.

4. When necessary he will divert from conventional play to hit quads but this he estimates at 5 percent of the time.

5. He sticks to a strict win goal system and at $2500 playing $5 and $10 games it is a modest win goal system.

That's the Singer system as I understand it. Go ahead now and rip it apart.
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Originally posted by: MoneyLA
I don't want to be viewed as Singer's spokesman but let me REPORT my understanding of his system and then you guys are free to rip it apart.

And yet you continue to do the job. You know, if you don't want to do something you can just say no.

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Originally posted by: MoneyLA
1. He believes you can never win over the long term playing a VP game with a negative paytable.

And yet he claims to have won almost a million dollars doing exactly that. I suspect you are misstating Singer's beliefs.

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Originally posted by: MoneyLA
2. There are two few positive paytables around at higher denominations to make what he calls the grind worthwhile.

No one forces anyone to play VP. There is no reason to "grind" on any VP paytables. That is just plain nonsense. Of course, I do know multiple individuals making over 6 figures yearly doing the "grind". Beats the hell out of 9-5 at Walmart.

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Originally posted by: MoneyLA
3. He plays various bonus games with big pays on quads and aces which come more often than royals, obviously, since only a royal makes a positive paytable positive.

So what? You will hit RFs over time just like the other results. Why separate them? Oh yeah, I forgot for a second that it's a con.

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Originally posted by: MoneyLA
4. When necessary he will divert from conventional play to hit quads but this he estimates at 5 percent of the time.

As I've told you before that is 1 in every 20 hands or about 40 times an hour for a regular player. Over a years time it will get into the thousands. And, as I've demonstrated to you before, most of his special plays reduce the probability that he will reach a win goal. However, if you are trying to CON folks they do make a nice magical elixir.

Quote

Originally posted by: MoneyLA
5. He sticks to a strict win goal system and at $2500 playing $5 and $10 games it is a modest win goal system.

The SPS system we are discussing is not only $5 and $10 games. He plays a progression that starts at $1. You really have no idea even though this has been explained to you numerous times. Amazing!

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Originally posted by: MoneyLA
That's the Singer system as I understand it. Go ahead now and rip it apart.

That was easy. Although, to Singer's credit most of your spewage has little to do with his actual system.
Holy guacamole Batman I take a four hour nap and three pages appear on LVA. Coalescing.
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Originally posted by: MoneyLA
Thanks for a civil comment. But singer's fear that machines are rigged has become a moot point and a non issue as Singer says he plays as if the machines are honest and random. Remember he plays "by the book" 95 percent of the time.

This is one of the cases where Rob's reputation precedes him.

Everyone hangs on this controversy and avoids the benign reality of his "system"


Sorry, not a "moot point". He has been claiming this for years and it is part of his ongoing CON where he tries to convince people they can't win legitimately unless they use his system with the magical elixir special plays. While he is smart enough to never say it outright, he implies you can overcome the rigged machines and win when he claims to have won tons of money.




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Originally posted by: DonDiego

Application of the scientific method to the apparent conundrum seems relatively simple. Why it seems to poor old DonDiego that if someone were to claim a method by which the video poker machines presently available in Nevada could be beaten, it would not be a particularly difficult exercise to simply demonstrate it, . . . play some randomly selected machines with known rules and paytables, from which expected returns can be calculated, . . . for a sufficient length of time to achieve statistical confidence in the result.


This is where the problem exists. With a progression you are likely to win a higher % of the time which is offset by a few large losses. Not much different than a simple Martingale system. What this does is increase the variance significantly. It would literally take millions of hands to reach "statistical confidence".

I don't think you're going to find too many people that will volunteer to watch over a player while they play several million hands, but hey, maybe I'm wrong. Any volunteers?

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Originally posted by: DonDiego
DonDiego has no dog in this fight. To his knowledge he has never met any of the active participants or subject-people mentioned in the posts.

He doesn't recall commenting much on the topic of this thread; what he has commented on is its interminable nature and tedious repetition.

DonDiego understands probability and statistics, . . . part of his job used to be to design tests of weapons systems, tests which were seldom sufficiently carried out to yield significant results, . . . but that was someone else's decision.
And DonDiego understands how and why he can win at blackjack. He also understands sometimes it's just luck, . . . like last month at a West Virginia Casino where teechur and DonDiego sat at a lucky table, doubled their buy-ins in less than an hour, and left.
He doesn't understand how he can win at video poker available nowadays, . . . other than with seldom experienced good luck or an abnormally high progressive and luck-so-far-never-experienced.

All he knows is what he reads, . . . like, f'rinstance, articles by Michael Shackleford at the Wizard of Odds: A Chat With Rob Singer . (note i, below)

Application of the scientific method to the apparent conundrum seems relatively simple. Why it seems to poor old DonDiego that if someone were to claim a method by which the video poker machines presently available in Nevada could be beaten, it would not be a particularly difficult exercise to simply demonstrate it, . . . play some randomly selected machines with known rules and paytables, from which expected returns can be calculated, . . . for a sufficient length of time to achieve statistical confidence in the result.
If the "math guys" methodology approximates the mathematically-expected results, well they are right. If the "winners-way" methodology achieves significantly better results, then he is right.

Tedious argument punctuated by occasional name-calling and insult is unlikely to resolve the issue on this or any forum. Such quarrelsome dialogue can be entertaining and amusing, . . . but not forever !

note i: If Mr. Shacklford's contention that: " . . . [he] absolutely believe[s] that every video poker machine made by a major manufacturer is completely fair and random." is the real issue, well, . . . then somebody oughta prove otherwise. DonDiego opines if somebody could prove that in todays litigious world he would become a mighty wealthy fellow indeed. On the other hand, if it were not true - provable or not, . . . and this contributes to Mr. Singer's success, . . . then that should show up in the results of the test proposed.


Your idea is great until we realize that to prove or disprove the RS system with statistical significance would take 8 hours a day of play for about 6 months straight. The whole 2.6 million possible dealt hands in VP makes this a difficult if not impossible task. Also, Rob has essentially blocked this method since he says the "secret" to winning is not playing too much and allowing the odds to catch up with you. Yes I know that makes no sense. Look, I just work here. Would you like to try the frozen yogurt?
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Originally posted by: FrankKneeland
. . . Rob has essentially blocked this method since he says the "secret" to winning is not playing too much and allowing the odds to catch up with you. Yes I know that makes no sense.
[italics added-DD]

Uh-oh. Dondiego thinks FrankKneeland just spilled the beans.

I've always thought a "system" had to be well defined. Every possible scenario that could / will occur has a "system" response to that specific situation.

I have not seen those parameter with the "Singer system". Too much left to the imagination. JMHO, of course, and others may interpret the RS system as they wish too.

There are many Blackjack systems. From the original Revere "Beat The Dealer" to many others. Yet each of those BJ systems has very specific parameters for every conceivable situation one may encounter during the play of a hand.

Maybe I have just not examined the RS system enough to understand it. There just seem to be too many discrepancies that go against my perceptions and understanding of the game and analytical probabilities.

I know I should have studied game theory more than I did. Drats!

Monte, Since we know that Curtain #1 is not the Jackpot, I'd like to trade my original choice of Curtain #2 for Curtain #3. Or not.






Quote

Originally posted by: MoneyLA
I don't want to be viewed as Singer's spokesman but let me REPORT my understanding of his system and then
you guys are free to rip it apart.


Good lord we would never think that.

Guess that would be a huge step down from interviewing four presidents.
I'm reading your comments. If you are expecting me to debate or argue your points I will disappoint you. As I said before there are so many variables in Rob's system or method of play I don't know how you could test it. There are too many variables.

I would just like to remind Arc that Singer does not consider himself to be a long term player. And Rob told me that most of his play is at the $10 level. And when he uses his special plays is still an undefined variable that are not used if conventional strategy is working.

On my site Rob wrote: "I play more by the book than the critics realize".
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