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The new $15 hr fast food cashier

malibber2
malibber2
Aug 8, 2015
10:00am
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malibber wonders what the world in twenty years will mean for the idea of conservatism? With increasing automation and the offshoring of most physical labor there simply won't be enough jobs to employ most of the working aged people.
alanleroy
alanleroy
Aug 8, 2015
10:30am
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Quote
Originally posted by: malibber2
malibber wonders what the world in twenty years will mean for the idea of conservatism? With increasing automation and the offshoring of most physical labor there simply won't be enough jobs to employ most of the working age people.

It's going to be a rude awaking for many citizens and unskilled non-citizens looking for jobs in the USA....not just conservatives. Liberals flip burgers too.

malibber2
malibber2
Aug 8, 2015
11:30am
Block User
Quote
Originally posted by: alanleroy
Quote
Originally posted by: malibber2
malibber wonders what the world in twenty years will mean for the idea of conservatism? With increasing automation and the offshoring of most physical labor there simply won't be enough jobs to employ most of the working age people.

It's going to be a rude awaking for many citizens and unskilled non-citizens looking for jobs in the USA....not just conservatives. Liberals flip burgers too.


Oh, I agree it will impact both equally, but that is not the point I was trying to make. The modern conservative philosophy (as far as the grass roots are concerned) is based on the premise if you are willing to work hard it is more likely you will be rewarded. We are entering an age where we will have lots of people that are willing to work hard, but there will simply be no work for them to do. I don’t even think it is a matter of skilled vs. unskilled labor. A lot of skilled labor has been outsourced or automated.

So as a conservative how to you deal with life in society where say there is only work for 20% of the working aged population? Isn’t this going to require looking at income distribution in radical new ways? Won’t a larger and larger percentage of the population be on the government dole because there is no other place for them?
jatki
jatki
Aug 8, 2015
11:41am
Block User
Quote
Originally posted by: malibber2
Quote
Originally posted by: alanleroy
Quote
Originally posted by: malibber2
malibber wonders what the world in twenty years will mean for the idea of conservatism? With increasing automation and the offshoring of most physical labor there simply won't be enough jobs to employ most of the working age people.

It's going to be a rude awaking for many citizens and unskilled non-citizens looking for jobs in the USA....not just conservatives. Liberals flip burgers too.


Oh, I agree it will impact both equally, but that is not the point I was trying to make. The modern conservative philosophy (as far as the grass roots are concerned) is based on the premise if you are willing to work hard it is more likely you will be rewarded. We are entering an age where we will have lots of people that are willing to work hard, but there will simply be no work for them to do. I don’t even think it is a matter of skilled vs. unskilled labor. A lot of skilled labor has been outsourced or automated.

So as a conservative how to you deal with life in society where say there is only work for 20% of the working aged population? Isn’t this going to require looking at income distribution in radical new ways? Won’t a larger and larger percentage of the population be on the government dole because there is no other place for them?


As compared to now? What is the current U6 and percentage of people who have given up looking for work?

malibber2
malibber2
Aug 8, 2015
11:49am
Block User
Quote
Originally posted by: jatki99
Quote
Originally posted by: malibber2
Quote
Originally posted by: alanleroy
Quote
Originally posted by: malibber2
malibber wonders what the world in twenty years will mean for the idea of conservatism? With increasing automation and the offshoring of most physical labor there simply won't be enough jobs to employ most of the working age people.

It's going to be a rude awaking for many citizens and unskilled non-citizens looking for jobs in the USA....not just conservatives. Liberals flip burgers too.


Oh, I agree it will impact both equally, but that is not the point I was trying to make. The modern conservative philosophy (as far as the grass roots are concerned) is based on the premise if you are willing to work hard it is more likely you will be rewarded. We are entering an age where we will have lots of people that are willing to work hard, but there will simply be no work for them to do. I don’t even think it is a matter of skilled vs. unskilled labor. A lot of skilled labor has been outsourced or automated.

So as a conservative how to you deal with life in society where say there is only work for 20% of the working aged population? Isn’t this going to require looking at income distribution in radical new ways? Won’t a larger and larger percentage of the population be on the government dole because there is no other place for them?


As compared to now? What is the current U6 and percentage of people who have given up looking for work?


Given current trends unemployment and underemployment are going to climb higher and higher. The question is how do we reshape society to deal with it? How do deal with the upcoming obsolesce of the human worker?



jatki
jatki
Aug 8, 2015
11:59am
Block User
Quote
Originally posted by: malibber2
Quote
Originally posted by: jatki99
Quote
Originally posted by: malibber2
Quote
Originally posted by: alanleroy
Quote
Originally posted by: malibber2
malibber wonders what the world in twenty years will mean for the idea of conservatism? With increasing automation and the offshoring of most physical labor there simply won't be enough jobs to employ most of the working age people.

It's going to be a rude awaking for many citizens and unskilled non-citizens looking for jobs in the USA....not just conservatives. Liberals flip burgers too.


Oh, I agree it will impact both equally, but that is not the point I was trying to make. The modern conservative philosophy (as far as the grass roots are concerned) is based on the premise if you are willing to work hard it is more likely you will be rewarded. We are entering an age where we will have lots of people that are willing to work hard, but there will simply be no work for them to do. I don’t even think it is a matter of skilled vs. unskilled labor. A lot of skilled labor has been outsourced or automated.

So as a conservative how to you deal with life in society where say there is only work for 20% of the working aged population? Isn’t this going to require looking at income distribution in radical new ways? Won’t a larger and larger percentage of the population be on the government dole because there is no other place for them?


As compared to now? What is the current U6 and percentage of people who have given up looking for work?


Given current trends unemployment and underemployment are going to climb higher and higher. The question is how do we reshape society to deal with it? How do deal with the upcoming obsolesce of the human worker?


Excellent questions.

alanleroy
alanleroy
Aug 8, 2015
12:32pm
Block User
Quote
Originally posted by: malibber2

So as a conservative how to you deal with life in society where say there is only work for 20% of the working aged population? Isn’t this going to require looking at income distribution in radical new ways? Won’t a larger and larger percentage of the population be on the government dole because there is no other place for them?

I am not 'conservative' in many issues so your first premise is wrong.

That there will only be work for 20% of the working aged population is not inevitable either. It's just there won't be menial, repetitive jobs. If the working aged population is highly educated, entrepreneurial and enlightened there could still be jobs for all....Just not picking grapes in Fresno or operating a Freedom Fryer at McDonalds or driving a cab in Las Vegas.

One could argue that becoming a highly educated, entrepreneurial and enlightened population is a natural outcome of a free people competing against automation in a free labor market. So each individual will then strive to find and develop some skills that can't be automated or outsourced. That will be harder when the machines become smarter than us, but that part will take more than 20 years.....I think.

Now, if it's true that the vast majority of human kind cannot advance to less than menial job tasks and their labor eventually cannot compete with capital and they own no capital...then that could bode ill for society.

I might prefer a solution whereby the people acquire capital through tactics like Employee Stock Ownership plans and National Pension equity investments in US Industry. Eventually the People could actually own the bulk of industry and all would share in the ongoing investments and advancements....and it would be done without the government or the horde confiscating that wealth. See Louis O. Kelso's classic work "The Capitalist Manifesto" for more on this approach.

Some other options are not so rosy. 80% fewer people is one such option....But hey that solves our little Global Climate Change problem too. A return to medieval living and feudalism is another possibility. And there's always the time tested possibility of just taking money from some people and giving it to others.
O2bnVegas
O2bnVegas
Aug 9, 2015
8:12am
Block User
Quote
Originally posted by: forkushV


I learned of the H&H Automat watching "That Touch of Mink" starring Doris Day and Cary Grant.
Audrey Meadows reaching through the little window to slap Gig Young's face...funny.

O2bnVegas
O2bnVegas
Aug 9, 2015
8:14am
Block User
Quote
Originally posted by: forkushV


I learned of the H&H Automat from "That Touch of Mink" starring Doris Day and Cary Grant.
Audrey Meadows reaching through the little door to slap Gig Young's face...funny.

Don
Don
Aug 9, 2015
10:28am
Block User
Quote
Originally posted by: alanleroy
Some other options are not so rosy. 80% fewer people is one such option....But hey that solves our little Global Climate Change problem too. A return to medieval living and feudalism is another possibility. And there's always the time tested possibility of just taking money from some people and giving it to others.

DonDiego observes there is no need to wait for the arrival of intelligent robot masters to put Americans out of work. Americans have been "volunteering" to not work since the turn of the 21st Century.

Americans are considered to be in the labor force by the Bureau of Labor Statistics if they are employed or actively looking for work. As of July the nation’s civilian noninstitutional population, comprising all people 16 or older who were not in the military or an institution, reached 250,876,000. About 157-million Americans are in the labor force, either holding a job or actively seeking work. Over 93-million are just no longer in the workforce.



Party like its 1977, man !


Oh, and the decrease in worker participation is not because the baby-boomers are retiring/dying. In fact the labor force participation is projected to drop for those ages 16-to-54 and rise for those older:




DonDiego opines there is also an increasing likelihood of the return to a medieval economy, not so much because of the arrival of robotic servants [in fact the rise of the machines may be delayed], but because of exhaustion of many of the planet's natural resources, especially those that provide energy for America's happy-motoring existence. DonDiego wouldn't be surprised if in 20 or 30 years a lower energy existence will lead to reliance upon more local resources and folks with practical skills, . . . not so many financiers and pencil pushers and more farmers and mechanics and craftspeople. That is, . . . the Good Old Days may well return.


Taking money from some [productive] citizens and giving it to others may be an unaffordable luxury. The spending curve for reducing poverty through such transfers will be bent down.



DonDiego hopes he's around to see how it all turns out.


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