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Originally posted by: pjstroh
I've bookmarked this post because anytime we debate the tax burden of the wealthy class vs the middle class you specifically state that Medicare and Social Security taxes are not to be considered in that equation.
But back to the point....
Both Medicare and SS are commerical services the government mandates you participate in. The funding is a tax - which you can desperately say makes them different from the new health care bill - but nevertheless it refutes the point made in this thread that the government can not mandate commerce. It can. The upcoming debate in the Supreme Court is not about the gov being able to mandate commerce it is going to be over symantics of its funding - calling it a tax vs non-discretionary spending.
Originally posted by: pjstroh
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Originally posted by: hoops2
Medicare & SS is a tax which the govt can do. The bill was written as requiring people to buy insurance, a huge difference! As mentioned by others by allowing the mandate opens the legal door for examplethat the Feds can require people to bu GM cars.
I've bookmarked this post because anytime we debate the tax burden of the wealthy class vs the middle class you specifically state that Medicare and Social Security taxes are not to be considered in that equation.
But back to the point....
Both Medicare and SS are commerical services the government mandates you participate in. The funding is a tax - which you can desperately say makes them different from the new health care bill - but nevertheless it refutes the point made in this thread that the government can not mandate commerce. It can. The upcoming debate in the Supreme Court is not about the gov being able to mandate commerce it is going to be over symantics of its funding - calling it a tax vs non-discretionary spending.
You really don't understand the difference? Really? Let me help you....
a) nobody 'forces' you to participate in either SS or Medicare. Don't earn a wage and see how much of those taxes you pay
b) the constitution allows for taxes. It's in there, trust me. I'll save you the embarrassment of pointing out the specific places where it's mentioned, but feel free to do your own research.
c) when Bush jr tried to allow for people to opt out of SS (and maybe Medicare, someday), the left went ballistic - can't have those silly, stupid citizens actually keeping their own money and making their own choices, after all. That would erode Federal power for chrissakes...
d) let me be clear on this: if Reid and Pelosi weren't such pussies, they could have made a single payer system (or just subsidized those without HC insurance, since 85% of people LIKE their current coverage), and funded it through new, constitutional taxes. They didn't. They are pussies.
e) they can't call this mandated purchase a tax because that brings up an entirely different constitutional challenge - the fact that direct taxes (that's actually the technical term for them) must abide by capitation - the idea that each state pays an equal proportion in relation to their population. The income tax gets around this through the 16th amendment. Obamacare's mandated purchase wouldn't meet that test, since its skewed by states with lots of kids (think: Utah), the injuns are exempt, etc.
Feel free to ignore point e), since if you don't understand the Commerce Clause, there's no fckn way you'll understand that.
