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Originally posted by: alanleroyQuote
Originally posted by: forkushV
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Originally posted by: alanleroy
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Originally posted by: forkushV
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Originally posted by: alanleroy
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Originally posted by: forkushV
Quote
Originally posted by: alanleroy
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Originally posted by: forkushV
Quote
Originally posted by: alanleroy
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Originally posted by: forkushV
And unfortunately for him, on the left he's got a Democratic president who supports George W. Bush's immigration policy, Governor Mitt Romney's health care plan, Ronald Reagan on assault rifles and open carry, and (apparently) Grover Cleveland on limiting executive orders.
Hell if all President Obama does is support Republican policies, the Democrats should have just voted Republican and elected the real deal. Maybe they will next time.
Ah, but which Republican Party?
Ronald Reagan:
Signed a law AND an executive order protecting illegal aliens.
Signed a bill strengthening abortion rights.
Advocated for spending that caused the national debt to soar.
Advocated for the separation of church and state.
Upped the contribution levels on higher income earners to strengthen Social Security.
Said that middle income taxpayers should not pay a higher rate than the wealthy.
A RINO like Reagan wouldn't have a chance in today's Republican Party, and he wouldn't even get an invite from Fox to participate in the debates. Does ANYONE here dispute that?
Compared with the right-wingers back then, today's conservatives are radical extremists. And today's "centrists?" Well, they're just right-wingers.
Romney wasn't a radical extremist. McCain wasn't a radical Extremist. As far as I know those were the last two Republican presidential candidates....and two solid citizens with long histories of public service.
Will you slur anyone to advance your cause?
I wrote: "Compared with the right-wingers back then[the Reagan Era], today's conservatives are radical extremists.
With support for increased Social Security taxes, abortion rights, immigration reform, separation of church and state, and fairer middle class tax rates compared with the wealthy, Reagan wouldn't have a chance in the upcoming Republican primaries. And he was right-winger, wasn't he alanleroy?
Compared with Reagan, virtually every potential Republican presidential candidate is a radical extremists. But to right-wingers who call themselves centrists, it probably doesn't look that way.
Whatever. Back in the Reagan era there even used to be conservative and independent Democrats. I also imagine JKF wouldn't have a chance in the Democrat primaries today...what with his penchant for cutting income and corporate taxes I'm sure Malibber2 would classify him as a conservative extremist...
President Kennedy supported a top marginal income tax rate of 65%, something Socialist Bernie Sanders doesn't even advocate. And in his first two weeks in office, Kennedy called for a stimulus package that included increased unemployment benefits, aid to children of the unemployed, increased Social Security benefits, an increase in the minimum wage, and a publicly financed home building program.
Real Tea Party policies, huh?
Oh, and Kennedy changed Aid to Dependent Children (ADC) to Aid to Families with Dependent Children (AFDC), increasing welfare benefits. And he introduced food stamps and supported increased Social Security benefits to encourage earlier retirements. Oh, and the Civil Rights Act and Medicare didn't pass during the Kennedy administration, but he sure supported them.
So alanleroy, what have you got to show that Kennedy was conservative? A perfectly reasonable quote from his campaign that you imagine is anti-liberal. So alanleroy, I think you should take my advice on this one. It's time for another "whatever."
"Liberals claim that Kennedy’s tax cuts were somehow different from Reagan’s and Bush’s, and it is true that Kennedy was cutting the rates from higher levels (though loopholes and deductions meant that few actually paid the statutory high rates). But the arguments Kennedy rejected in pursuing his tax cuts sound awfully similar to the arguments used by liberals today. The Harvard economist John Kenneth Galbraith, from his perch as ambassador to India, opposed tax cuts and advised increasing government spending instead. Kennedy told him to shut up. Senator Albert Gore Sr. called the Kennedy tax cut a bonanza for “fat cats.” Kennedy, frustrated, privately denounced Gore as a “son of a bitch.”"
"While he increased military spending, overall he restrained federal outlays. His plan for economic growth emphasized not deficits but tax-rate cuts that he argued would eventually pay for themselves by increasing government revenue"
"Nearly 30 years ago, an essay in Mother Jones magazine asked: “Would JFK Be a Hero Now?” If the answer wasn’t obvious then, it certainly is now. In today’s political environment, a candidate like JFK — a conservative champion of economic growth, tax cuts, limited government, peace through strength — plainly would be a hero. Whether he would be a Democrat is a different matter altogether."
https://ideas.time.com/2013/10/14/jfk-was-a-political-conservative/
Let's see now. Tax cuts to spur economic growth. Increased military spending to confront the evil empire. A focus on self reliance. Oh and what was his position on Abortion again? Sounds like a DINO to me.
Wait...there's more!
"Eleanor Roosevelt was asked in a TV interview whom she would support if forced to choose “between a conservative Democrat like Kennedy and a liberal Republican [like] Rockefeller.” FDR’s widow, then as now a progressive icon, answered that she would do all she could to make sure Kennedy wouldn’t be the party’s nominee"
https://www.bostonglobe.com/opinion/2013/10/19/would-jfk-never-liberal-still-find-home-democratic-party/ZrxV7lJYHrvWxOjXItAuZJ/story.html
So would JFK be welcome in today's Democrat Party? About as much as a Blue Dog Democrat or Joe Lieberman. Those democrats are long gone...unfortunately.
alanleroy, you should have stuck with "whatever."
There are right-wing revisionist publications you would probably enjoy that prove that Martin Luther King was conservative, that the Civil War wasn't about slavery, and that our Founding Fathers were opposed to the separation of church and state. By the way, one of your revisionist once published an editorial saying that Iraq War protestors should be prosecuted for treason. The other said that the right-wingers who fight against marriage equality are like the folks who fought for civil rights in the South. And that, alanleroy, is the company you keep.
So Kennedy was supposedly conservative because other liberals badmouthed him? How hard do you think it would be to find a dozen prominent liberals complaining about Obama’s conservatism...in the last month? Ever hear of Bernie Sanders or Elizabeth Warren - or Harry Reid on the Trans Pacific Partnership? Oh, and another of your powerhouse arguments is that Kennedy once said something in a campaign speech. Golly, I really don’t know how your argument could be much lamer - but alanleroy, I bet you’ll surprise me!
Kennedy acted to increased welfare, acted to introduce food stamps, acted to support the Civil Rights Act, acted to increase Social Security payments, and acted to extend and increase unemployment insurance. Actions count for a lot more than one speech, or unremarkable complaints by members of his own party, don’t they? And here is why President Kennedy acted to raise the minimum wage:
“...to water down the help they need, or merely assume that prosperity at the top will someday reach them—shocks the conscience of those who care. The increases in purchasing power resulting from a higher minimum wage will help to restore consumer demand required to put our idle industrial capacity back to work. The elimination of unfair competition based upon substandard wages will protect fairminded employers anxious to maintain fair labor standards.” - President John F. Kennedy
Ooh, I think Kennedy just described classical Keynesian liberal economics. And shit on trickle-down Reaganomics. And took action. Somehow, I don’t think the Tea Party concurs.
Ah...but we were arguing whether Kennedy would could be nominated by your party today. Because you claim the Republicans are now 'extremists' who would not nominate Reagan...
So you're no longer claiming that Kennedy was a conservative. Well that's a relief. But I don't think Socialist Bernie Sanders would have a problem with Kennedy's 58% marginal tax rate proposal. And I know that Markos Moulitsas, proprietor of the liberal Daily Kos, wouldn't have a problem with reducing corporate taxes, because he has proposed eliminating them completely. (Or maybe you would claim that Bernie and Kos are conservatives, huh?)
But I'm glad you brought up the abortion and gay rights thing, because Democrats have changed their positions MASSIVELY since back then. And when it comes to gun control, immigration reform, higher Social Security taxes, and clear separation of church and state, Republicans have changed MASSIVELY since Reagan's time. alanleroy, I don't know why you can't bring yourself to admit that.
But being the centrist party on almost every major issue, the Democratic Party changed as a natural response to massive changes in public opinion. However, the Republicans did not change in response to public opinion. They just got radical.
