Obamacare & The Supreme Court - Round 2

This is a crazy thought. How about folks who consume a service or good pay for that service or good?


Quote

Originally posted by: malibber2
Quote

Originally posted by: alanleroy
I hope it is struck down and is taken as a grand opportunity for a bipartisan effort to inject the law with smart improvements to really address medical costs. I've gone through a litany of ways that could cut costs in half and won't repeat them here...let's just say there's a lot of room for improvement.

Republican and Democrat working hand in hand to make a better tomorrow for us all. That's what I'm hoping for.


Alan, I think you have been smoking something. Republicans control both the House and Senate it will be up to them to come up with something to fix it. It took them several years to come up with an alternative to Obamacare and after years of work they quickly withdrew it after people pointed out their plan would result in a massive tax hike for the middle class and working poor.

They have had more than a year to come up with a replacement plan if the Plaintiffs win this case. They have been unable to do so because not enough Republicans can even agree on a proposal to put forward. We can't get to the part about talking about a bi-partisan solution because Republicans can even agree on a starting point proposal.

As far as lowering costs have you read the part of the TPP that was just leaked that deals with healthcare? It would prevent any future Congress from formulating ways to cut Prescription Drug costs. It also contains a provision allowing pharmaceutical companies "evergreen" patents which means no more generic drugs.

My legal analysis of the case leads me to conclude there is about a 60% chance that the subsidies part of Obamacare will be repealed. The Court would be well within its rights to say it is not our responsibility to fix a typographical error it is up to Congress. Contrary to Don Diego’s premise that it is up to Obama Justice Scalia said it should be up to Congresses to fix it. I would expect any ruling would include language saying as much.

If the subsidies die will it be the end of the world? No – in the states that Medicaid has been expanded people will be able to simply drop their income down enough to qualify for Medicaid. In a way it is the perfect set up for the 2016 election. Republican’s destroy the part of Obama care that utilizes private health insurance companies which leaves the only real solution being a Medicare for all type of program.


Quote

Originally posted by: alanleroy
Quote

Originally posted by: forkushV
alanleroy, could you PLEASE inform me of something? What is the Republican plan?

You'd have to ask a Republican to get the answer to that. I don't think they have a plan except repeal, start over and blame the Democrats for anything that goes wrong. That's no plan in my book.

I don't think the Democrats have a plan to fix our still broken healthcare system either...
Liberals do, and we've had one on the table since Harry Truman.

It's single payer, you know, just like Canada and just like the incredibly efficient Medicare. And liberals even offered a compromise incremental way to get there, with optional public options and Medicare buy-ins. But "centrist" conservative Democrats like Senators Joe Lieberman and Ben Nelson killed that, didn't they? That's a shame.
Quote

Originally posted by: Boilerman
If the Obamacare law violates the Constitution, do any of you wish that the court ignore this truth and still vote in support of Obamacare?
King v. Burwell has nothing to do with the constitutionality of Obamacare. Go have someone to explain it to you, and then we can continue this chit chat.

If Medicare is so efficient why is the fraud rate so high & why does it have an unfounded liability of several trillion dollars?

Ahh, . . . excellent. The discussion has returned to the intended topic - the case before the Supreme Court.

The primary issue in King v Burwell addresses implementation of Obamacare and most notably implementation by the IRS of the provisions for subsidies to those enrolled in Federal Exchanges and similarly the provisions for enforcing the Law's employer mandate and individual mandate.

The text of the Law explicitly authorizes such subsidies for State Exchange enrollees but fails to explicitly authorize them for Federal Exchange enrollees.

Other issues arise as well. A quite detailed exposition of the case against the current implementation can be found on pages 119 through 195 of Spring 2013 issue of Health Matrix: Journal of Law-Medicine.

Here's the first paragraph of the conclusion:
"The IRS rule’s attempt to offer premium-assistance tax credits through federal Exchanges lacks validity because the IRS lacks the legal authority to create entitlements where, as here, Congress has not authorized them. Congress has granted the IRS authority to offer premium-assistance tax credits and cost-sharing subsidies only through Exchanges that are ‘a governmental agency or nonprofit entity that is established by a State.' The IRS lacks the authority to offer those entitlements, to enforce the employer mandate, and in many cases to enforce the individual mandate, in states that opt for either a 'federally facilitated' Exchange or a 'partnership' Exchange. The IRS rule unlawfully usurps Congress’ exclusive powers to tax, to create new legal entitlements, to issue tax credits, and to spend federal dollars."
Wow, Double D was able to find a Cato institute article that is critical of Obamacare.



At this rate, maybe someday he'll be able to find a North Korean article that is not particularly critical about the Dear Leader.



Can't wait!
Quote

Originally posted by: hoops2
If Medicare is so efficient why is the fraud rate so high...
It isn't. Insurance in general - all types - tends to have a lot of fraud, and Medicare has less than most.

But getting back to the discussion of efficiency - that is, low overhead - Medicare is incredibly efficient when compared with private health insurance and Obamacare.

Quote

Originally posted by: Chilcoot
Wow, Double D was able to find a Cato institute article that is critical of Obamacare.
He found an article laying out the case against the present implementation of the Patient Protection and Affordable Care Act in accordance with the thread's topic. Those interested in the case may find it informative.

Instead of, f'rinstance, citing an argument supporting the present implementation of the Law, Chilcoot chose to belittle a poster with whom he disagrees. DonDiego has observed such behavior before.
Quote

Originally posted by: DonDiego
Instead of, f'rinstance, citing an argument supporting the present implementation of the Law, Chilcoot chose to belittle a poster with whom he disagrees. DonDiego has observed such behavior before.
I didn't belittle you. I mocked your actions. There's a difference. You're fantastic, it's what you do that's not so much.

We cite and source and link. Facts, data, evidence, it never matters.

So now you're (pretending to be) sad I didn't Google something for you? Really?

Okay, enjoy.
Quote

Originally posted by: Chilcoot

I didn't belittle you. I mocked your actions. There's a difference. You're fantastic, it's what you do that's not so much.

We cite and source and link. Facts, data, evidence, it never matters.

So now you're (pretending to be) sad I didn't Google something for you? Really?

Okay, enjoy.
Facts, data, evidence should matter; DonDiego shall persist in his quixotic quests.

DonDiego isn't sad. But he thanks Chilcoot for his concern.

Outstanding ! Chilcoot provided a link to the respondents' opinion in King v Burwell. Now the interested reader, if any, can compare the facts against each sides' position and decide for himself the right of the matter.
Already a LVA subscriber?
To continue reading, choose an option below:
Diamond Membership
$3 per month
Unlimited access to LVA website
Exclusive subscriber-only content
Limited Member Rewards Online
Join Now
or
Platinum Membership
$50 per year
Unlimited access to LVA website
Exclusive subscriber-only content
Exclusive Member Rewards Book
Join Now