OT My emergency room "doctor bill"

I agree that one judge wrote this in his opinion, but it is outside the legal mainstream.
Your emergence in the right wing media has given you a distorted view of reality. I know the usual suspects parrot this case over and over, but again it is outside the mainstream. For instance the Virginia Federal Judge who ruled against the mandate only threw the mandate out. That case is at the Federal Appellate court on Tuesday.


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Originally posted by: hoops2
"Nope, that is merely wishful thinking by the tea baggers sort of like the thought defaulting on the debt wouldn’t have any consequences. As legal matter it just isn't even within mainstream legal thought to invalidate the whole thing."

Normally maliber would be correct but this law is different in the way it was written

As District Judge Roger Vinson explains in his ruling, the bill did not pass with a standard severability clause, which typically bills like this would have. That allows a judge to split off unconstitutional pieces from a bill in litigation while leaving the rest of the bill, having passed Constitutional muster, intact. The severability clause is a feature of almost all major legislation in Congress, and it was in the ACA at one point, but through the different versions, somewhere down the line, it was excised. This gave Judge Vinson the power to decide on his own whether or not to sever the individual mandate from the bill. A previous district judge, Henry Hudson in Virginia, declined, ruling only that the mandate itself was unconstitutional. But Vinson went further, as he explains


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Originally posted by: hoops2
Poll Date Sample Favor Repeal Oppose Repeal Spread
RCP Average 2/17 - 4/30 -- 48.5 40.8 Favor Repeal +7.7
Rasmussen Reports 4/29 - 4/30 1000 LV 47 42 Favor Repeal +5
Hearst/F&M 4/5 - 4/25 800 A 44 38 Favor Repeal +6
Bloomberg 3/4 - 3/7 1001 A 52 42 Favor Repeal +10
POS (R) 2/17 - 2/21 800 RV 51 41 Favor Repeal +10
As anticipated, hoops2 completely misses the point.

A significant part of the opposition to ACA comes from Americans who believe it doesn't go far enough. He thinks the nation falls into two camps: those who support ACA and those who don't. But the world is more nuanced. Some Americans oppose ACA because it stopped short of the reform they wanted.

UPDATE

Turns out hoops2 is unbelievably dishonest. Look how he misrepresents the first poll he cites that I checked:

Bloomberg 3/4-3/7:

Turning to the health care bill passed last year, what is your opinion of the bill?
It should be repealed: 41%
We should see how it works: 42%
It should be left alone: 12%


So: give it a chance + leave it alone = 54%.

54 percent say don't repeal, 41 percent say repeal.

I'm not going to argue that the nation's not divided on ACA. It is. But those who support it, combined with those who want to see it go further, significant outnumber those who simply want a repeal.

I wonder how many other distortions there are in the polls he cited?

I restate my fundamental point. If ACA's mandate is declared unconstitutional, the result will be a taxpayer-funded single payer system, not a return to the wonders of the American health care system circa 2009.
Has anyone in the history of the internet won a political debate and made the other person switch sides?
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Originally posted by: Chilcoot
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Originally posted by: hoops2With only 40% supporting this law there is no way the govt nationalizes health care.
As usual, hoops2 is being dishonest with polling data.

A significant portion of the opposition to ACA comes from Americans who believe ACA doesn't go far enough, that it's not single payer and still pays private insurers to deny care.

In a Kaiser Family Foundation poll last month:
33% said that the health care law needs to be expanded
19% said keep it as is
15% say repeal the law and replace it with a GOP-backed one
20% say repeal the law, replace it with nothing
14% don't know/refused

Among those with an opinion, 60% want the law to either stay as it is or expand it.

Americans who want the law expanded would not react to an order declaring ACA's mandate unconstitutional by demanding a return to pre-Obama policies. They'd demand tax supported, single payer health care, which is what they really want.


I just love statistics, its the best math for confusing the hell out of someone. Love the way you turned 52% into 60%, just to make your point sound better. The poll says 52% said to keep it as is or expand it. The other 49% disagree or don't know, seems to me the issue is still divided.


or found a poll or chart or statistic or something,somewhere, else to further there cause?
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Originally posted by: KayPea
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Originally posted by: chefantwon
The government set up the part where you can just walk in to the Emergency Room and get treated no matter if you can pay or not.
Then what is the incentive to have insurance or ever pay your bills? If you take your car to the mechanic and he gives you a bill but tells you it that it is optional to pay, then why would anyone pay?

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Originally posted by: chefantwon
So what are you going to do if some peoson with no insurance has to have emergency surgery or die? Let them die or fix 'em up?
What are you going to do if someone goes into a restaurant with no money? Feed them or let them go hungry? Would you feel different if the reason that they have no money is because them spent the last of their money on a new watch? If someone decides they would rather have cable TV or a $80/mo cell phone plan over medical insurance, then that should be their choice. But the hospital or tax payers should not then have to pay their medical bills. If someone is on public assistance and truly can not afford medical care or insurance let alone cell phones or cable TV, then that should be part of the public assistance.


A person is not entilted to eat. Please name me one place where I have to feed a person?

Tell me where a person is entilted to have cable tv? A house? Electricity? A car?

Hospital emergency room treatment is ONE place where if someone comes in and needs treatment, then they get it, period. I didn't make the rules, this was in place before I was of age to vote.


The struggle against evil never gets old.

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Originally posted by: KayPea
Has anyone in the history of the internet won a political debate and made the other person switch sides?


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Originally posted by: malibber
The struggle against evil never gets old.

Quote

Originally posted by: KayPea
Has anyone in the history of the internet won a political debate and made the other person switch sides?



So sayeth one of the loudest parrots of all.
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Originally posted by: KayPea
Has anyone in the history of the internet won a political debate and made the other person switch sides?
I don't expect to persuade hoops2. He wants to believe what he already believes, facts be damned.

I'm more interested in people who might read his disinformation and become confused. I hope to help them, the silent readers. In doing so, I try very hard not to overstate my case. I don't always succeed, but I really do try.
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Originally posted by: jatki99
Quote

Originally posted by: malibber
The struggle against evil never gets old.

Quote

Originally posted by: KayPea
Has anyone in the history of the internet won a political debate and made the other person switch sides?



So sayeth one of the loudest parrots of all.


Absolutely! He/she should return back to their hippie commune in Oregon and find some trees to spike. It is amusing that anyone who doesn't agree with him/her is considered evil. He/she probably wouldn't consider terrorists to be evil if they agreed with him/her.
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