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OT My emergency room "doctor bill"

Dan Svatass
Dan Svatass
May 7, 2011
12:26pm
Block User
Most Americans are already paying. You should see what's coming out of our paychecks already.

The best shift would be to relieve America's employers of the burden of financing our healthcare.

The problem with American health care isn't that we spend too little. It's that we spend too much, and achieve too little, relative to what other advanced nations achieve.

I'll restate: what's to be done, in the free-market system our President's opponents advocate, when a bleeding, unconscious man of unknown means is found, dying on a sidewalk?
malibber
malibber
May 7, 2011
12:51pm
Block User


The short answer is when people's illness and suffering quits being seen as a enrichment system for hospitals, hospital management companies, physicians, pharmaceutical companies, insurance companies, medical equipment companies and so forth. Until that basic truth is seen we are all simply cows waiting to be milked.

To bring it back to Money's problem of being overcharged by the physician he will ultimately realize his only recourse is to bend over and take it like a man. The system is simply set-up to extract the maximum payment from any solvent responsible party, and contesting things just really isn't feasible.

Quote
Originally posted by: chefantwon
Quote
Originally posted by: Chilcoot
I've never heard any of our American health care disaster apologists explain what we as a society should do when we find someone on a sidewalk, unconscious and bleeding, their wallet gone.


What about medical care for all of those baby boomers? Who is going to pay for that? Who is going to pay the $billions in unfunded SS and Medicare/Medicade benefits once all of us baby boomers are of retirement age? How much are you going to tax the middle class for this crap? You want to tax the rich, find out what the tax revenues were for the top tax rates during the Carter administration and what they are now.

You site polls which don't mean anything, when the actual bill comes due and peoples opinions change like rats leaving a sinking ship. You talked about mandating health care, who's going to pay that bill? Plus all of the other bills your leaving out?


chefantwon
chefantwon
May 7, 2011
1:07pm
Block User
Quote
Originally posted by: Chilcoot
Most Americans are already paying. You should see what's coming out of our paychecks already.

The best shift would be to relieve America's employers of the burden of financing our healthcare.

The problem with American health care isn't that we spend too little. It's that we spend too much, and achieve too little, relative to what other advanced nations achieve.

I'll restate: what's to be done, in the free-market system our President's opponents advocate, when a bleeding, unconscious man of unknown means is found, dying on a sidewalk?


I know what's coming out of our paychecks.

So I take it your ready to pay $9.00 a gallon for gas? A 26% tax on everything else taxed at each stage of production? A tax on the CC's of your cars engine? A tv tax? These taxes on top of the taxes we already pay??

I don't know how many other countries you have lived in, but tax wise your sitting REAL pretty here.
malibber
malibber
May 7, 2011
1:09pm
Block User

Personally I'd handle it this way. I wouldn’t pay and I'd wait for the physician to sue me, and then I'd subpoena the physician to personally appear and testify. I'd try and show that he has seen so many patients there is no way for him to have an accurate recollection of how much time he spent with me, and I'd offer the theory that the bill was just an “honest” mistake by a hardworking physician that just guessed about how much time he had spent with me because he couldn’t recall. The overall idea being I'd try to get him to spend as much time in court away from the hospital so even if I lost on the merits it wouldn’t be profitable for him.



chefantwon
chefantwon
May 7, 2011
1:45pm
Block User
Quote
Originally posted by: malibber
Personally I'd handle it this way. I wouldn’t pay and I'd wait for the physician to sue me, and then I'd subpoena the physician to personally appear and testify. I'd try and show that he has seen so many patients there is no way for him to have an accurate recollection of how much time he spent with me, and I'd offer the theory that the bill was just an “honest” mistake by a hardworking physician that just guessed about how much time he had spent with me because he couldn’t recall. The overall idea being I'd try to get him to spend as much time in court away from the hospital so even if I lost on the merits it wouldn’t be profitable for him.


Mail, I've got a bill by a doctor I have no clue who this guy is or what the hell he did. I have tried on numerous occasions to contact his office to find what this guy is charging me for. So far no success. So until I talk to a person who can answer my questions, the doctor in question doesn't get paid. If they take it to collections, I refute it.

Unlike most folks I have an out when it comes to health care, but I don't use it. I know what this government agency has done to its patients and I can't sue them if they screw up my life. Of course these folks are supposed to have oversite yet it doesn't do what is advertised and people die.
Dan Svatass
Dan Svatass
May 7, 2011
1:56pm
Block User
Quote
Originally posted by: chefantwon
So I take it your ready to pay $9.00 a gallon for gas? A 26% tax on everything else taxed at each stage of production? A tax on the CC's of your cars engine? A tv tax? These taxes on top of the taxes we already pay??
In exchange for having my employer give me the money he's currently taking out of my paycheck to pay for my health insurance?

Yes.

Absolutely.

Without question.

Most certainly.

Yes.

You?
snidely333
snidely333
May 7, 2011
2:05pm
Block User
Quote
Originally posted by: malibber
Personally I'd handle it this way. I wouldn’t pay and I'd wait for the physician to sue me, and then I'd subpoena the physician to personally appear and testify. I'd try and show that he has seen so many patients there is no way for him to have an accurate recollection of how much time he spent with me, and I'd offer the theory that the bill was just an “honest” mistake by a hardworking physician that just guessed about how much time he had spent with me because he couldn’t recall. The overall idea being I'd try to get him to spend as much time in court away from the hospital so even if I lost on the merits it wouldn’t be profitable for him.


The physician won't sue you for a paltry $1200. They physician will sell your debt to a collection agency. The collection agency will then attack your credit rating and harass and threaten you as much as legally possible. You write your own letter to each credit bureau refuting the charge and send a couple certified letters to the collection agency telling them not to bother you. After a few months the collection agency gives up and your credit rating is fine. Been there, done that.

If the bill gets large enough, they will sue you. I've had that happen to me, too. The lawsuit response is simply that you refute the charges and defer the charges to the responsible party (insurance company). About a year went by and the insurance company agreed to pay. Lawsuit dismissed with prejudice.

malibber
malibber
May 7, 2011
2:06pm
Block User
You likely won't get an answer until they sue you that is just how the system is set-up. Now if it is turned over to an outside debt collector make sure you notify them in writing via certified mail 1. That your contesting it and 2. you specifically want to know what its for. If they can't tell you what it is for they have to go away.

See:
https://www.ftc.gov/bcp/edu/pubs/consumer/credit/cre18.shtm

the relevant part:

Quote



If you send the debt collector a letter stating that you don’t owe any or all of the money, or asking for verification of the debt, that collector must stop contacting you. You have to send that letter within 30 days after you receive the validation notice. But a collector can begin contacting you again if it sends you written verification of the debt, like a copy of a bill for the amount you owe.



Honestly, your a hell of a nice guy, and I hate to tell you, but ultimately they are just running you through the system. Knowing your unemployed they don't expect you to pay they expect you to file bankruptcy, and ultimately they will push you there simply to clear up their books. Unfortunately there is no compassion or accommodation for people trying to do the right thing. When I practiced law the local hospitals/physicians were the number one creditors driving people into bankruptcy.


Quote
Originally posted by: chefantwon
Quote
Originally posted by: malibber
Personally I'd handle it this way. I wouldn’t pay and I'd wait for the physician to sue me, and then I'd subpoena the physician to personally appear and testify. I'd try and show that he has seen so many patients there is no way for him to have an accurate recollection of how much time he spent with me, and I'd offer the theory that the bill was just an “honest” mistake by a hardworking physician that just guessed about how much time he had spent with me because he couldn’t recall. The overall idea being I'd try to get him to spend as much time in court away from the hospital so even if I lost on the merits it wouldn’t be profitable for him.


Mail, I've got a bill by a doctor I have no clue who this guy is or what the hell he did. I have tried on numerous occasions to contact his office to find what this guy is charging me for. So far no success. So until I talk to a person who can answer my questions, the doctor in question doesn't get paid. If they take it to collections, I refute it.

Unlike most folks I have an out when it comes to health care, but I don't use it. I know what this government agency has done to its patients and I can't sue them if they screw up my life. Of course these folks are supposed to have oversite yet it doesn't do what is advertised and people die.


snidely333
snidely333
May 7, 2011
2:14pm
Block User
Yes. I'm assuming the bill is bogus or some other party is obligated to pay that is not, for whatever reason, paying it. If indeed, you are responsible, then you need to pay up or work out some arrangement.
malibber
malibber
May 7, 2011
3:04pm
Block User
True but it has been my experience most collection agency’s are simply looking for the quick buck. If met with aggression they will simply turn the debt back over to the originator. A real simple test to determine how aggressive the collector is:

When the collector calls at the first moment you get a live person instead of auto dialer say: “Before we begin I must inform you I am recording this conversation.” 70 to 80% of the time the collector's penis will contract back inside his body, and he will slither back under whatever rock he crawled out from under never to be heard from again. If they continue the conversation ask for their full name, for them to spell their last name and then ask them if it is their real name. That will get rid of another 10% of them. In any event if you ultimately tell them you want to litigate it they have to step up to to plate so to speak even if your small claims case is against the debt collector your still entitled to subpoena the Dr. to testify for your defense. (pre-judgment of course) If it comes to blows I'd rather sue the Debt Collector anyway. Almost all of them violate the FDCPA in some way. Minimum damages for each violation is $1,000 plus attorney’s fees.

If your just worried about them dicking you around and messing with your credit rating sue the DR. small claims early in the process that will tie their hands and end the dicking around. A new technique to challenge medical collections that came about after I quit practicing are HIPPA violations. In any event if your aggressive and have lots of time on your hands you can really outlast them and make their life miserable too.

Quote
Originally posted by: snidely333
Quote
Originally posted by: malibber
Personally I'd handle it this way. I wouldn’t pay and I'd wait for the physician to sue me, and then I'd subpoena the physician to personally appear and testify. I'd try and show that he has seen so many patients there is no way for him to have an accurate recollection of how much time he spent with me, and I'd offer the theory that the bill was just an “honest” mistake by a hardworking physician that just guessed about how much time he had spent with me because he couldn’t recall. The overall idea being I'd try to get him to spend as much time in court away from the hospital so even if I lost on the merits it wouldn’t be profitable for him.


The physician won't sue you for a paltry $1200. They physician will sell your debt to a collection agency. The collection agency will then attack your credit rating and harass and threaten you as much as legally possible. You write your own letter to each credit bureau refuting the charge and send a couple certified letters to the collection agency telling them not to bother you. After a few months the collection agency gives up and your credit rating is fine. Been there, done that.

If the bill gets large enough, they will sue you. I've had that happen to me, too. The lawsuit response is simply that you refute the charges and defer the charges to the responsible party (insurance company). About a year went by and the insurance company agreed to pay. Lawsuit dismissed with prejudice.


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