Vegas Free-for-All - pai-gow poker

pai-gow poker

Boilerman

Mar 8, 2016
9:49am

I'm confused. Casinos have full blackjack tables where they make plenty of money, and empty pai gow games where they don't make money.

Please explain.

Quote

Originally posted by: friedmush
That would be incorrect. Pai Gow is the lowest-rated game for earning comps. The pace is slow. There are far fewer hands played per hour because it takes much longer to set seven cards and for the dealer to sort out the hands to determine winner of upper and lower hands. If I'm having a tough night I head to pai gow where I can look at my original bet for 20 minutes. It's the ultimate break even game, side bets aside.

Quote
Originally posted by: Boilerman
I'm certain that the house is winning more from pai gow in the short run.

Quote
Originally posted by: vegasdev
Quote
Originally posted by: Boilerman
This is an interesting topic for me. Understand, however, that we only go to Vegas a couple of times per year. I'm always looking for the casino with a bunch of blackjack tables, but that doesn't seem to exist any longer. I see plenty of open Pai-Gow games, but few with blackjack.............leading to me to believe that pai-gow is more profitable than blackjack. Just an observation which might be inaccurate,

Quote
Originally posted by: vegasdev
pai-gow poker seems to be my favorite game these days. I like to play at the Orleans or GC. there are different versions at various casinos. downtown, the GN seems to have the best pai-gow. I was just wondering if anyone else had a favorite place to play the game.

the house edge is around 2.84% give or take depending on the variation of the game. not too bad for a slow paced game with free drinks and comps. ....... it is the side bets, progressive bets, sucker bets on the table that keep the house rolling in the dough. like most table games I guess.

Terry Locke

Mar 8, 2016
10:25am

Block User

I'll explain. It's all about sample size. I've never witnessed what you experienced.

A casino gives higher comps on blackjack than pai gow because the ADT is higher on BJ than pai gow.

Quote

Originally posted by: Boilerman
I'm confused. Casinos have full blackjack tables where they make plenty of money, and empty pai gow games where they don't make money.

Please explain.

Quote
Originally posted by: friedmush
That would be incorrect. Pai Gow is the lowest-rated game for earning comps. The pace is slow. There are far fewer hands played per hour because it takes much longer to set seven cards and for the dealer to sort out the hands to determine winner of upper and lower hands. If I'm having a tough night I head to pai gow where I can look at my original bet for 20 minutes. It's the ultimate break even game, side bets aside.

Quote
Originally posted by: Boilerman
I'm certain that the house is winning more from pai gow in the short run.

Quote
Originally posted by: vegasdev
Quote
Originally posted by: Boilerman
This is an interesting topic for me. Understand, however, that we only go to Vegas a couple of times per year. I'm always looking for the casino with a bunch of blackjack tables, but that doesn't seem to exist any longer. I see plenty of open Pai-Gow games, but few with blackjack.............leading to me to believe that pai-gow is more profitable than blackjack. Just an observation which might be inaccurate,

Quote
Originally posted by: vegasdev
pai-gow poker seems to be my favorite game these days. I like to play at the Orleans or GC. there are different versions at various casinos. downtown, the GN seems to have the best pai-gow. I was just wondering if anyone else had a favorite place to play the game.

the house edge is around 2.84% give or take depending on the variation of the game. not too bad for a slow paced game with free drinks and comps. ....... it is the side bets, progressive bets, sucker bets on the table that keep the house rolling in the dough. like most table games I guess.

Stewart

Mar 8, 2016
10:37am

Block User

Quote

Originally posted by: jphelan
The M used to have $5 PaiGow with 32 varieties of draft beer served from the 32 degrees bar --- not sure if this is still valid but it was great while it lasted!

wow that sounds good! of course I would have to have a driver ;-)

billryan

Mar 8, 2016
10:48am

Block User

Casinos are terrified of good blackjack players. The Vegas Hole Card Mafia can take an unsuspecting casino for six figures before the bosses catch on.
Is such a thing possible in Pai Gow? Are there pros that can exploit the game?

Boilerman

Mar 8, 2016
7:41pm

Block User

"Wizard of Odds" show table game odds, including Blackjack and Pai Gow. Furthermore, there are more ignorant Pai Gow players vs Black Jack players, raising the house take.

Table game odds

Terry Locke

Mar 9, 2016
2:51am

Block User

Quote

Originally posted by: Boilerman
Furthermore, there are more ignorant Pai Gow players vs Black Jack players, raising the house take.

Table game odds

What do you base this on? I play both blackjack and pai extensively and just the opposite is my experience. Players can even ask the dealer how the house would set a hand. The play is slow and tables are typically filled with grinders. But you're an expert on everything including games you don't partake.

Boilerman

Mar 9, 2016
4:04am

Block User

As the link that I posted points out, the house wins much more money on Pai Gow. This is why the casinos are pushing Pai Gow. I didn't need an odds table to tell me about Pai Gow profits. I already news this after observing the casinos push Pai Gow.

Quote

Originally posted by: friedmush

Quote
Originally posted by: Boilerman
Furthermore, there are more ignorant Pai Gow players vs Black Jack players, raising the house take.

Table game odds

billryan

Mar 9, 2016
4:12am

Block User

You are not looking at the whole picture. The House edge is only one part of it. Equally, or possibly even more important is rounds played per hour. A full BJ table will give 45-50 rounds an hour. I have no idea how many pai gow does, but it looks like a very slow game.
To figure out expected hold, you multiply dollars bet by rounds played by house edge. Without inputting all three, you can't make an informed decision.

Terry Locke

Mar 9, 2016
4:55am

Block User

Quote

Originally posted by: billryan
To figure out expected hold, you multiply dollars bet by rounds played by house edge. Without inputting all three, you can't make an informed decision.

Right.

Ask any pit boss which game pays the meakest in comp rewards for the same denomination play they will all tell you pai gow easily. And it's reality. Been there and done that hundreds of times. Let It Ride, while a fun game, has among the highest comp rewards because of the volatility. It's a fun game, but it is a beast.

Boilerman

Mar 9, 2016
8:24pm

Block User

Wizardofodds reports that the Pai Gow game speeds along at 34 hands per hour, while BJ plays 70 hands per hour. Assuming that their projected odds are correct (reported earlier in my link), and the hands per hour data is accurate, if equal dollars are played the house take for Pai Gow is 260% that of blackjack.

I've never done the math until today, but I've watched Vegas push this game for years.

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